SlowTeg

Which begs the question does spec_ops give a shit if he's making another 100whp? If he doesn't then who cares? While I think it's good to make more power and have a more efficient setup, you have to ask yourself "at what cost" and "when is enough enough." I appreciate good flowing manifolds as much as anyone else but there's always going to be better and faster people out there.. I understand people love big dyno #'s for bragging rights, but making these big numbers on a dyno and actually putting down the power semi-reliably are two different things.

Such is the way though with internet bandwagons.. apparently log manifolds are "crappy." I remember people jumping all over Mase's nuts because the s2k turbo kit was the best.. then the cracked manifolds started happening and now it's junk. Go figure.. I feel bad for the poor folks who "upgraded" their reliable log manifolds and spent thousands to make an extra Xwhp only to end up going back to a log manfold.. Run what works for you. The reality is that 500whp from a log = 500whp from a good flowing tubular.

riceball777

Which begs the question does spec_ops give a shit if he's making another 100whp? If he doesn't then who cares? While I think it's good to make more power and have a more efficient setup, you have to ask yourself "at what cost" and "when is enough enough." I appreciate good flowing manifolds as much as anyone else but there's always going to be better and faster people out there.. I understand people love big dyno #'s for bragging rights, but making these big numbers on a dyno and actually putting down the power semi-reliably are two different things.

Such is the way though with internet bandwagons.. apparently log manifolds are "crappy." I remember people jumping all over Mase's nuts because the s2k turbo kit was the best.. then the cracked manifolds started happening and now it's junk. Go figure.. I feel bad for the poor folks who "upgraded" their reliable log manifolds and spent thousands to make an extra Xwhp only to end up going back to a log manfold.. Run what works for you. The reality is that 500whp from a log = 500whp from a good flowing tubular.
[/quote]
most of us have street cars and the biggest problem when making HP is the fact many of us must run straight pump gas/91 octane. You will not make 500whp on 91 octane even with the most efficient turbo/manifold setup. Sure if we can run race gas for free or if we all were able to get e85 all the time then 600+hp wouldent even be a problem even with an inefficient log setup.

but I enjoy my car on the street as a daily driver 100+miles per day everyday and the car must run 91 octane, so therefore I need the most efficient power producing setup possible

Reapur

Which begs the question does spec_ops give a shit if he's making another 100whp? If he doesn't then who cares? While I think it's good to make more power and have a more efficient setup, you have to ask yourself "at what cost" and "when is enough enough." I appreciate good flowing manifolds as much as anyone else but there's always going to be better and faster people out there.. I understand people love big dyno #'s for bragging rights, but making these big numbers on a dyno and actually putting down the power semi-reliably are two different things.

Such is the way though with internet bandwagons.. apparently log manifolds are "crappy." I remember people jumping all over Mase's nuts because the s2k turbo kit was the best.. then the cracked manifolds started happening and now it's junk. Go figure.. I feel bad for the poor folks who "upgraded" their reliable log manifolds and spent thousands to make an extra Xwhp only to end up going back to a log manfold.. Run what works for you. The reality is that 500whp from a log = 500whp from a good flowing tubular.
[/quote]
most of us have street cars and the biggest problem when making HP is the fact many of us must run straight pump gas/91 octane. You will not make 500whp on 91 octane even with the most efficient turbo/manifold setup. Sure if we can run race gas for free or if we all were able to get e85 all the time then 600+hp wouldent even be a problem even with an inefficient log setup.

but I enjoy my car on the street as a daily driver 100+miles per day everyday and the car must run 91 octane, so therefore I need the most efficient power producing setup possible
[/quote]

Not only that, but it's more boost running though the motor to hit that number of 500hp putting more strain on everything. Why make the internals take more beating to make less power? Like peddling a bike uphill in a high gear. Being inefficient will take its toll.

I'd rather run 14 psi to hit 500hp than run 20 psi.

BuggyofMildDiscomfort

Then don't, turn the boost down, stay at 500hp and enjoy lower charge temps and less stress and wear on the motor.
Even better, switch to a smaller turbine and make it spool as fast as the log too, no?

Obviously, if it's anything like my motor and thrown together from scrapyard parts, you have to use what you have, but most guys on here seem to just buy shiny new stuff every other week*, it's like watching a flock of magpies



*Still fun to read, who doesn't like unwrapping shiny new car parts?

Spec_Ops2087

Which begs the question does spec_ops give a shit if he's making another 100whp? If he doesn't then who cares? While I think it's good to make more power and have a more efficient setup, you have to ask yourself "at what cost" and "when is enough enough." I appreciate good flowing manifolds as much as anyone else but there's always going to be better and faster people out there.. I understand people love big dyno #'s for bragging rights, but making these big numbers on a dyno and actually putting down the power semi-reliably are two different things.

Such is the way though with internet bandwagons.. apparently log manifolds are "crappy." I remember people jumping all over Mase's nuts because the s2k turbo kit was the best.. then the cracked manifolds started happening and now it's junk. Go figure.. I feel bad for the poor folks who "upgraded" their reliable log manifolds and spent thousands to make an extra Xwhp only to end up going back to a log manfold.. Run what works for you. The reality is that 500whp from a log = 500whp from a good flowing tubular.
[/quote]
most of us have street cars and the biggest problem when making HP is the fact many of us must run straight pump gas/91 octane. You will not make 500whp on 91 octane even with the most efficient turbo/manifold setup. Sure if we can run race gas for free or if we all were able to get e85 all the time then 600+hp wouldent even be a problem even with an inefficient log setup.

but I enjoy my car on the street as a daily driver 100+miles per day everyday and the car must run 91 octane, so therefore I need the most efficient power producing setup possible
[/quote]

Not only that, but it's more boost running though the motor to hit that number of 500hp putting more strain on everything. Why make the internals take more beating to make less power? Like peddling a bike uphill in a high gear. Being inefficient will take its toll.

I'd rather run 14 psi to hit 500hp than run 20 psi.
[/quote]


500hp=500hp regardless, apart from engine nothing else in the car cares how much psi you are pumping so the stress result is the same. Some would argue the pressure doesn't much matter compared to how much torque the car is actually producing (actual measure of "power" thus how much stress its actually seeing) / what kind of knock the car is seeing / etc.

Spec_Ops2087

Which begs the question does spec_ops give a shit if he's making another 100whp? If he doesn't then who cares? While I think it's good to make more power and have a more efficient setup, you have to ask yourself "at what cost" and "when is enough enough." I appreciate good flowing manifolds as much as anyone else but there's always going to be better and faster people out there.. I understand people love big dyno #'s for bragging rights, but making these big numbers on a dyno and actually putting down the power semi-reliably are two different things.

Such is the way though with internet bandwagons.. apparently log manifolds are "crappy." I remember people jumping all over Mase's nuts because the s2k turbo kit was the best.. then the cracked manifolds started happening and now it's junk. Go figure.. I feel bad for the poor folks who "upgraded" their reliable log manifolds and spent thousands to make an extra Xwhp only to end up going back to a log manfold.. Run what works for you. The reality is that 500whp from a log = 500whp from a good flowing tubular.
[/quote]


For me, that pretty much sums it up. Believe it or not, I'm at the point where more power is basically useless to me for how I drive my car. I like being able to drive an absolute monster nice weather DD that takes 93, is super reliable, easy to drive, etc. Tubulars are great and surely make more power than mine would but that doesn't mean mine can't make big numbers...

Either way whatever floats your boat (my boat won't crack though!)

SlowTeg

SpecOPS answered my more direct questions regarding "efficiency" and "wear" on the motor. I'm not convinced that 500whp at less boost = less wear than 500whp on more boost, all else being equal.

You have a point where pump gas has its limits, but for those who don't even care about making 500+whp, say "just" 400whp, a log may work just fine. The main point is, everyone has different priorities and different strokes for different folks. I know people with "crappy" log manifolds that made good power and had a good running car for years. With the exception of the FR "ramhorn" manifold, I'm not sure I've seen a tubular last years w/o cracking.. I'm sure they're out there, but that's definitely 1 strong case for a log.

riceball777

The only tubular that wont crack is probably full-race manifolds.

camuman

Disagree.

s2kseven

60 WRHP more than the log manifold?
That's a lot of additional power - it looks two different dyno machine. You can't compare one dyno unit to another.
As we all know, their are big discrepancy in many different brand of dynamometer.