Oil return line
05-13-2012, 05:37 PM
#31
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by Irishflame27' timestamp='1336784093' post='21691333
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336715007' post='21688764']
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
You do realize the F20/22c is positioned in a slanted manner toward the passenger side of the vehicle? Directly making the drain plug ALWAYS the lowest point of the oil pan. You cannot return turbocharger oil under the oil level in the pan, not only will it cause a backup from the simple effects from gravity, but wait till boost (positive crankcase pressure) is added to the oil pan, you are now trying to gravity return into a pressurized area making it even harder to return the already backed up oil. The girlde has become the *default* area to return, well under the oil level with no chance of backup, a better alternative has recently come up which is the front timing cover.
I recently expirienced a direct example of oil return backup on a friends F20 and a topmount manifold with a Borg Warner 88/75. the return was too low on the oil pan, and the line was so long it leveled out before going into the pan, causing a backup, on the dyno when pressure was added to the oil pan, smoke instantly was emmited from the exhaust and the cartridge and turbine housing were soaked with oil. The return was changed to the timing cover and line was shortened, and fluids magically defied gravity......
You do realize that EVERY oil drain plug is at the bottom right? Point is to drain ALL of the oil of course.
OK, done being a smart ass, I completely agree with everything you said and the last bit is good info and a THIRD case of this being an issue. Good stuff!
If I get a chance I'll upgrade to the timing cover, for now the oil pan has worked alright, I've had no issues but that doesn't mean it's done right.
[/quote]
you know what i mean!
05-14-2012, 05:41 PM
#33
oh look the mugen turbo kit for the CRX
oil return line to the drain bolt
if Honda says its ok I'll take their word for it
[/quote]
I guarantee none of Honda's factory turbo cars drain to the bottom of the oil pan
05-14-2012, 07:04 PM
#34
Registered User
Originally Posted by speedjunky01' timestamp='1336749801' post='21689645
[quote name='herecomesboost' timestamp='1336747704' post='21689526']
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336717782' post='21688836']
50,000 miles later on the turbo civic and no issues.....
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336717782' post='21688836']
50,000 miles later on the turbo civic and no issues.....
oh look the mugen turbo kit for the CRX
oil return line to the drain bolt
if Honda says its ok I'll take their word for it
[/quote]
I guarantee none of Honda's factory turbo cars drain to the bottom of the oil pan
[/quote]
audi/vw has been in the turbo game for a while the return on many of their turbo cars isnt on the drain but it isnt over the oil level.
they use their turbo engines in EVERYTHING with no issue of smoke ect for 100,000 of thousands of miles
and yes ill be running it to the drain bolt still irishflame27's issue was due to the line being level not the spot of the return
also the crank case wont be pressurized with a proper catch can system the only source of case pressure will be from the piston rings
05-14-2012, 07:16 PM
#35
Registered User
Originally Posted by Deception' timestamp='1337046112' post='21698506
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336749801' post='21689645']
[quote name='herecomesboost' timestamp='1336747704' post='21689526']
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336717782' post='21688836']
50,000 miles later on the turbo civic and no issues.....
[quote name='herecomesboost' timestamp='1336747704' post='21689526']
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336717782' post='21688836']
50,000 miles later on the turbo civic and no issues.....
oh look the mugen turbo kit for the CRX
oil return line to the drain bolt
if Honda says its ok I'll take their word for it
[/quote]
I guarantee none of Honda's factory turbo cars drain to the bottom of the oil pan
[/quote]
audi/vw has been in the turbo game for a while the return on many of their turbo cars isnt on the drain but it isnt over the oil level.
they use their turbo engines in EVERYTHING with no issue of smoke ect for 100,000 of thousands of miles
and yes ill be running it to the drain bolt still irishflame27's issue was due to the line being level not the spot of the return
also the crank case wont be pressurized with a proper catch can system the only source of case pressure will be from the piston rings
[/quote]
I don't think Audi/VW has been in the RELIABILITY game EVER!
That's a drain line going down in that pic? Looks more like a sensor wire or something.....
The return line is the one GOING to the turbo btw, not the one being discussed anyway right?
Also, an OEM has the benefit of being able to choose from a large list of different turbos or even custom design one to fit the application, meaning they could choose one that doesn't is resilient to certain oil pressure issues etc. Also they have the ability to test their motor to make sure that it works nicely with the turbo. I don't think your analogy works well in our aftermarket applications.
05-14-2012, 07:24 PM
#36
Registered User
dude the black tube next to the sensor....they use a hard return line with a flex section
my friends 09 fsi GTI with 380whp since new on stock everything for 70k now says otherwise. yes they were crap when they were being assembled in mexico but they have stepped their game up as of late.
also make sure everyone calls science of speed and tell them to change their supercharger kit return line asap! I can see it being an issue with a very very VERY short return line, but with maybe 12-18" of return line no WAY it will have a problem.
my friends 09 fsi GTI with 380whp since new on stock everything for 70k now says otherwise. yes they were crap when they were being assembled in mexico but they have stepped their game up as of late.
also make sure everyone calls science of speed and tell them to change their supercharger kit return line asap! I can see it being an issue with a very very VERY short return line, but with maybe 12-18" of return line no WAY it will have a problem.
05-14-2012, 11:08 PM
#38
Registered User
Originally Posted by 05TurboS2k' timestamp='1336786005' post='21691402
[quote name='Irishflame27' timestamp='1336784093' post='21691333']
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336715007' post='21688764']
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
[quote name='speedjunky01' timestamp='1336715007' post='21688764']
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
You do realize the F20/22c is positioned in a slanted manner toward the passenger side of the vehicle? Directly making the drain plug ALWAYS the lowest point of the oil pan. You cannot return turbocharger oil under the oil level in the pan, not only will it cause a backup from the simple effects from gravity, but wait till boost (positive crankcase pressure) is added to the oil pan, you are now trying to gravity return into a pressurized area making it even harder to return the already backed up oil. The girlde has become the *default* area to return, well under the oil level with no chance of backup, a better alternative has recently come up which is the front timing cover.
I recently expirienced a direct example of oil return backup on a friends F20 and a topmount manifold with a Borg Warner 88/75. the return was too low on the oil pan, and the line was so long it leveled out before going into the pan, causing a backup, on the dyno when pressure was added to the oil pan, smoke instantly was emmited from the exhaust and the cartridge and turbine housing were soaked with oil. The return was changed to the timing cover and line was shortened, and fluids magically defied gravity......
You do realize that EVERY oil drain plug is at the bottom right? Point is to drain ALL of the oil of course.
OK, done being a smart ass, I completely agree with everything you said and the last bit is good info and a THIRD case of this being an issue. Good stuff!
If I get a chance I'll upgrade to the timing cover, for now the oil pan has worked alright, I've had no issues but that doesn't mean it's done right.
[/quote]
you know what i mean!
[/quote]
We've no idea, can you explain it completely?
05-14-2012, 11:12 PM
#39
Registered User
dude the black tube next to the sensor....they use a hard return line with a flex section
my friends 09 fsi GTI with 380whp since new on stock everything for 70k now says otherwise. yes they were crap when they were being assembled in mexico but they have stepped their game up as of late.
also make sure everyone calls science of speed and tell them to change their supercharger kit return line asap! I can see it being an issue with a very very VERY short return line, but with maybe 12-18" of return line no WAY it will have a problem.
my friends 09 fsi GTI with 380whp since new on stock everything for 70k now says otherwise. yes they were crap when they were being assembled in mexico but they have stepped their game up as of late.
also make sure everyone calls science of speed and tell them to change their supercharger kit return line asap! I can see it being an issue with a very very VERY short return line, but with maybe 12-18" of return line no WAY it will have a problem.
My turbo hangs below the manifold so mine is VERY short.
I don't really like the idea of a hardline but I guess it doesn't matter since I don't own that car, in any case, I honestly don't feel that VW/Audi is who we should be following in terms of reliable setups. The only Audi anyone in my family owned had both turbos go out twice........ Even if the new GTI is better than the old one, I still wouldn't compare it to something like a Toyota/Honda in terms of longevity.
I don't think we're saying if your line is set to the oil line you ARE going to have failure 100%. Rather they're saying it's something that CAN be a huge issue. In my case mine is welded very low, lower than I'd like and it's been fine but I'd prefer it to be higher if I could do it all over again easily.
05-15-2012, 08:59 AM
#40
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It's not hard to understand. The oil drain line is supposed to be CLEAR and FREEFLOWING with NO obstructions. It must go above the highest point of oil. If it doesn't, it can cause problems. It's not hard to tap and weld a bung. Spend the 80 bucks and do it right. Jeez.