I love water meth injection. So versatile and many ways to inject it to create the desired effect/goal.

 

But Junky is it worth having it if someone is running e85? (I have a flex fuel set up)

 

Well no question there is some portion of redundancy/overlap in what each achieves with respect to detonation suppression, but there are a handful of benefits injecting water/meth achieves that E85 does not, which includes further lowering the intake temps, increase in torque due to the denser charge entering the combustion chamber and of course the residual effect of steam cleaning the entire top end. E85 is kind of dirty, so a good steam clean might be an extra benefit to run in conjunction. Both options put added demands on the ignition system, so running both combined should be a consideration. I have never tested the threshold of E85 and water/meth combined on the factory ignition system, but suspect an upgrade there would be needed at some point. Keep in mind though that the best way to run water/meth for 3/4 of its benefits is to inject pre TB in a single port config, and this will generally put less demands on the ignition system then a multi point/direct injection set up, which would primarily be used for detonation control/max power. I dont see a use for multi point/direct injection when already running E85. Hope this adds some clarification.

 

Don't the different water/meth injection points provide slightly different benefits? Injecting before the compressor or in its volute makes the air denser in the turbo increasing the air mass. A benefit on the top end when the turbo may be running out of capacity. Injection after the IC increases its effectiveness. The water/meth consume the same energy in vaporization regardless of the temp, but the IC is less effective if the temperature differential is lower.

Does E85 raise the octane level high enough that knock isn't an issue regardless of boost, compression, and ignition timing or is there still a tradeoff in reduced boost, compression, and/or retarded ignition timing?

 

The air/intake charge becomes denser whether you inject before the compressor or after as long as its before the TB and either a quality spray/mist pattern from the nozzle or far enough away from the manifold to atomize with the incoming air to turn to steam and create the denser charge, so pre TB is the most important thing here. Even a poor/heavy spray pattern can atomize pretty good if its far enough back from the TB. The goal should be to get a quality/good spray that can atomize properly right from the nozzle to be as safe and effective as possible or can cause damage to things like the compressor or wash cylinders - most crucial when going with a direct injection set up) That said, spraying before the compressor carries some added risk if the spray isn't top notch quality. I have reservations myself doing this even though in theory there should be much benefit to the compressor longevity and still overall lower IAT. Some of the post stream may get "eaten up" and lose some portion of its effectiveness though being spray pre compressor and so a 2 stage post/pre compressor injection would likely be the best option there. Pre compressor injection is one variant I have not done myself due to that risk/my own comfort.

E85 has proven to be the magic ticket as far as raising the detonation ceiling high enough to where engine internal strength becomes the limiting factor, rather then tuning window. In that regard its probably the best option if its available to you and you are building an all out drag monster. But again with the added 3/4 the other benefits of water/meth should be considered no matter what fuel is being run.

 

Solid info.

 

I really wanted to spray Pre on the turbo setup, After seeing the Results on the blower, it was insane the difference!

But... One... I would have to come up with some kind of hard pipe that came off the turbo, so I can place a nozzle.... and than put a screen on the front of the inlet tube.

I would probably weld a bung in on a angle, so that the nozzle would be spraying towards the turbo compressor as well, and not a 90 degree into the pipe.

Most likely this would make a 750hp turbo and turn it into a 800 or even 850hp turbo... So it would be a nice bump.

Again When I ran the Novi 1200 Max boost I seen and power was 19-21 ish at redline on my setup.... once I sprayed a small shot of alky PRE compressor, I seen 26-28 psi at redline and gained a good 70-80hp. It was impressive to say the least.

my guess is its going to have a even GREAT effect on a turbo, because the turbo is spinning much faster RPMS and drawing in ALOT more air.


I may have to play with this once I get back home

 

Also spraying PRE compressor stage, i think the METH effects as in Det control and fuel added wont be as much cause most of the meth will vaporize in the compression stage..... But of course we are talking about E85 cars, so no worries... But on a pump gas car... i would also have a jet Pre TB for det control.

 

Wouldn't a Pro-Meth sniper or volute with its PWM solenoid handle the pre-turbo injection?

 

ok, ill trust the people making $ vs the people that lost thousands on airated engine blocks.. i have seen 1st hand failsafes not save people.

if a small nozzle for iat supression only, ok, no problem. for fuel or octane, not needed and WHEN it fails, your gonna wish you didnt run it