View Poll Results: Titanium vs Steel
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll
Titanium Retai
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 388
Likes: 1
Depends on what you read?
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...retainers.aspx
"Retainers
Lighter is better when it comes to spring retainers, no doubt about that. But cost is also a factor most racers have to consider. Titanium is lighter than steel, but titanium is expensive and it is not as hard as steel. This may create wear problems even if a special hard surface coating is used. The most common titanium retainers are Ti64 alloy, and a higher grade Ti17 alloy."
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...retainers.aspx
"Retainers
Lighter is better when it comes to spring retainers, no doubt about that. But cost is also a factor most racers have to consider. Titanium is lighter than steel, but titanium is expensive and it is not as hard as steel. This may create wear problems even if a special hard surface coating is used. The most common titanium retainers are Ti64 alloy, and a higher grade Ti17 alloy."
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,119
Likes: 4
From: Seattle / Kalifornia
Actually yes I've drilled titanium.
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Banned
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 11
From: Raleigh, NC
It also depends on the specific alloy.. I doubt what's in the metal shop as stock is the same as what they use for retainers.
If ti was such a bad choice of material for retainers other options would be far more available
If ti was such a bad choice of material for retainers other options would be far more available
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Actually yes I've drilled titanium.
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Shear strength is also not the property taken into account with retainers. Compressive force is used on the retainers, so malleability is what you need to look at. Bending tube stock is far different from the compressive strength of a material. Bending pipe has more to do with ultimate tensile strength than modulus of rigidity.
I could go into an explanation of all the different force measurements in material sciences, but I really dont have a full day to spare typing everything up.
Regardless of this information, unless you know the exact alloys being used when comparing two types of retainers yon cant give measurements on the mechanical strength properties of each. The quickest and easiest way to find out which works best or lasts longest is to speak with experienced professionals who have used the two types in various applications.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Dela-ware?
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,119
Likes: 4
From: Seattle / Kalifornia
Originally Posted by 05TurboS2k' timestamp='1339514061' post='21775093
Actually yes I've drilled titanium.
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Titanium is NOT stronger than steel from all of my experience nor the data sheets I've seen, for it's weight it's stronger especially in tensile strength but grab some stock from a metal shop and bend both and tell me the titanium was harder to bend.... I've done this and it was easier.
When I've used the material to make springs for suspension components I noted a few interesting things about titanium but the best part was that it reduces unsprung weight (it's strong for it's weight) and that it doesn't allow sag after years of abuse, or at least not as much as steel springs.
It does great with trying to keep it's original form when being bent.
Perhaps it (or some types) maybe be "harder" so perhaps I chose a bad word there.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS:
Shear strength since that's what a retainer is having to deal with and steel is far superior in that respect.
Material Shear Modulus
(106 psi) (GPa)
Structural Steel 11.5 79.3
Stainless Steel 11.2 77.2
Steel, Cast 11.3 78
Steel, Cold-rolled 10.9 75
Titanium, Grade 2 5.9 41
Titanium, Grade 5 5.9 41
Titanium, 10% Vanadium 6.1 42
So there ya go, steel is far stronger, talking nearly double the shear strength
Tensil strength would probably be closer in numbers but that doesn't matter here, we're not making load supporting cables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...ity-d_946.html
Shear strength is also not the property taken into account with retainers. Compressive force is used on the retainers, so malleability is what you need to look at. Bending tube stock is far different from the compressive strength of a material. Bending pipe has more to do with ultimate tensile strength than modulus of rigidity.
I could go into an explanation of all the different force measurements in material sciences, but I really dont have a full day to spare typing everything up.
Regardless of this information, unless you know the exact alloys being used when comparing two types of retainers yon cant give measurements on the mechanical strength properties of each. The quickest and easiest way to find out which works best or lasts longest is to speak with experienced professionals who have used the two types in various applications.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,662
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
Well a majority of tuners ive spoke to didnt really have much on the negative side to say about Ti except just look at them when you do valve adjustemts.
I think this Ferrea kit is the way to go, not too much stiffer over stock and would definitely offer alittle more insurance
http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...-ap1-2840.html
I think this Ferrea kit is the way to go, not too much stiffer over stock and would definitely offer alittle more insurance
http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...-ap1-2840.html
