Hi everybody,


I hope you guys (and girls) can help me out. I've a Vortech S/C installed in my car and I already got one piston seizure when I was doing a VMax test and accelerated till 275 km/h (which equals to 8900 rpm).

Now the sc is back in together with a new engine (well it's has already 12000 km on the clock w/o the sc) and I don't want to destroy my engine again. Now comes my question:

Is it better to put a greddy e-manage to work on top of the Vortech ECU or is it better to use it alone and get the Vortech ECU out of the car?

The reason behind this is that I think that two piggybacks may hinder the other more than it helps and that I don't have any software at hand where I can take a look at the settings that the Vortech ECU is manipulating.

The e-manage is about to be installed by my tuner and then checked/fine tuned on a dynamometer.

This is especially important as we here in Germany will drive a lot faster so a steady set of 7000-8500 rpm in 6th gear is nothing and the engine is probably not able to do this as I assume that the Vortech SC is built for american use, that means less speed and maybe runs on a quarter mile.

Any insights to this is welcome. As I'm about to go on holiday for Waikiki Beach and later LA a quick answer is needed. If someone with a S2000 and Vortech SC lives in these cities and is interested in a chat, maybe we can setup a visit.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Andreas

 

Your failure sounds like the classic oil bolt/starvation problem that there was a TSB for in Europe. As such, it probably has very little to do with tuning.

That said, the e-manage is a very good deveice for curing lean situations. You can properly add fuel, assuming your injectors have the spare duty cycle. It is not very good at timing, whereas the Vortech Split Second timing box is.

I'd suggest removing the MAP clamp and installing the E-manage. The E-manage can do the MAP clamping for you. You will need the injector harness but don't bother with the ignition harness. Leave the Vortech/Split Second unit in place for timing.

You may also wish to upgrade you injectors and possibly even remove the FMU. This is a much better solution and works nicely with the E-manage.

 

Thanks AusS2000 for your quick answer. Although I don't understand everything what you were saying, I'll forward this to my tuner, he'll probably know.

You suggest to upgrade the injectors, Thomas G also from Germany used them in his comptech sc setup together with the e-manage and wasn't really happy with it and now is driving with the oem injectors back in.

Which injectors would you suggest and are the oem not big enough?

A little off-topic, but what kind of BOV can use to upgrade the existing one from Vortech, it's a bit quiet


Time to go to sleep now,

Andreas

 

I spent almost 4 months in Germany, just left in March. 275 is still quite fast for the Autobahn. I drove all over the country and had an E-class part of the time doing 220. At 220, I was passing everybody. I only rarely saw anyone going faster than that the whole time. Besides, I was told that next year, the limit is going to be 150 because of the EU.
My advice is go slower or install an oil cooler to handle the continuous rpms. It doesn't seem like you're too lean.

 

I too had some trouble with larger injectors. Low range drivability was pretty bad. But it was much safer in the top end. As I had increased boost I needed the larger injectors.

With regards to BOV: BOVs don't make noise, air pressure does. You're never going to get that fully sick sound with a bolt on SC set up unless you do some serious upgrading. If all you're after is sound I suggest one of these:


http://www.takakaira.com/accessories/night...nightpager.html

 

I used an E-manage, 440cc RC injectors, and the Vortech/Split Second timing controller. The Vortech timing controller is much more accurate than the e-manage at controlling timing. (The E-manage timing control would detonate in areas below boost, bad enough I never mapped a full timing map)

I also removed the FMU. 12-12.5:1 AF #'s at WOT. The car was also tracked at a local road course.

The Vortech unit is programmable, as long as you have Split second's R4 software.

I'd reccomend installing a Wideband 02 sensor in the car, as well as an oil cooler for you Autobahn trips. I wouldn't run a FMU equipped Vortech at WOT for over 30 seconds.

 

Hi AusS2000,


thanks for your suggestions, but I have to ask a bit more as I don't understand every single bit of your posting.

1) What is a TSB? My fourth cylinder was starving from running to lean, that's right. I have a video posted at my website (see my signature for it), where you can actually see how I was accelerating the car for the first time (I just bought it one day before) from 144 to 275 Km/h, when I let it roll out and took the next exit on the highway, I already heard the damage and I stopped the engine.

2) What is the MAP clamp? Can you show a picture or explain it in more detail to me, as my english isn't technical enough to understand.

3) Once again, what is the FMU? Fuel management unit or what? Unfortunately I'm a computer scientist and can help myself on my 15 year old Austin Mini, but with all these electronical gadgets, I'm a bit confused. A picture will probably help locating this thing.

I also assume, that if I remove the FMU that I have to somehow connect some wire/sensors which where connected with the FMU to the e-manage or not?

4) I assume that with this setup of e-manage and Vortech ECU working together I don't have to change the timing? I probably can't change it anyway, as I don't have the software B4 (or whatever it was called) anyway, or is this SW available or downloadable?

This means that I only concentrate on adding more fuel through the e-manage especially in the upper revs in order to get the ideal F/A ratio of 12 to 12.5. Right?


Still a bit confused about all those things but you guys are helping me to learn a lot more about my car.


Thanks,

Andreas

 

TSB - Technical Service Bulletin
FMU - Fuel Management Unit
MAP Clamp - The box supplied by Vortech that connects between your MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor and ECU (Engine Control Unit)

There is a known problem in Europe (or at least Autobahn/strada countries) where runnning at high revs for extended periods resulted in cylinder overheating due to oil starvation. A Technical Service Bulletin was released on early cars (up to some time in 02) suggesting they be returned tot he dealer to have the oil spray bolts replaced with less restrictive one. Considering your situation, symptons and results I find it very hard to believe this wasn't your problem.

The FMU is a hardware device. It has no wires. It is used to up fuel according to boost. It is old style mechanical tuning. If you remove it and then upgrade injectors and install a Greddy E-manage (electrical device) it can increase fuel by assessing the MAP signal (reading boost) and driving the injectors accordingly. A modern style of tuning.

The E-manage needs to see the actual MAP signal so you remove the MAP Limiter. But the ECU still can't handle the high MAP values so the E-manage has a MAP limiting function. It sends this signal to the ECU.

I really can't say anymore than that. You really need to read the Vortech SC install instructions to know what is what and where it is installed. Then check out the Greddy E-manage and search some of the threads on here about it. Of course if that's all too much round trip tickets from Australia to Germany are not that expensive and I really could do with a holiday.