I'm only going to say this... Their not loosing out on money, people wouldn't buy their products because they can't afford them how is buying a "cheaper" copy hurting them. If you can afford to buy th real thing do it, if not get the knock off. I have a knock "Amuse style" front lip and I have to tell you, I've parked my car next to a real one... it looks the exact same.

However with that said I do agree with Dan that a name change or a small design change to make the new product your own, is a great idea.

 

I'm no genis but i have watched interviews with some of the owners of soem of the top tuning companys in japan and they are so angry with the people who copy their products, and like ben said in japan there are many of these lawsuits in japan, because no matter how you view it you are stealing from the manufacturers of these products that they spend alot of time, money and research into. that is why when you buy a jdm part for a jdm company there are certificates up the wazoo on the product it self a waranty card and a certificate of authenticity etc. etc. I'm not saying offering a low cost product is bad but offering a complete knock off which appears the same , minus the quality (in mot cases) is stealing and is ilegeal. I understand not everyone can buy all jdm parts due to their high costs but, i for one would much rahter have less parts and have authntic jdm parts then have alot of knock offs. I take i certain pride in owning parts from a JDM company i doesnt make me better or worse then any one i buy them becuase i enjoy their unique style and high quality.

This is just my opion im sure alot of you disagree but at the same time im sure alot feel the same as me.

 

"Ben"

why are you going to post that? I never stated I was going to make a GP Sports nor did I ever post this anywhere on this board .. for some reason everyone is coming to me asking me for these ... as for the knock offs i only do this because some do not want to pay 600+ for a set of skirts ... airwalker sides we no longer make the replica fiberglass ones I now buy direct from California ... so hence WE DO NOT MAKE THESE IN HOUSE ANYMORE DUE TO TIME AND CASH .. I buy my stuff out of California so this means "Ben" I buy from another company

Hence Urethain Airwalker style stuff and whatever other knock offs I sell, I have been straying away from some of this stuff as I am opening a new Superstore and my focus is on that at this time. As for the GP I have no plans at this vary moment .. I ahve thought about it but have not ... so please DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH

As for what happened with MG Racing you may know Giampiero screwed Sue out of 50k and I was not aware of this, 6 months into the company I got screwed out of 10k and is my reputation still good .... BY FAR YES ITS AT A ALL TIME HIGH ... its called customer service

Please do not put words in my mouth or anything at all about anything I tend to do ... until you see a thread or a G/B hosted as i do not tend to sell parts I DO NOT HAVE IN STOCK unless its OEM or JDM on order!

Sorry for my bitchyness I have had a very long day (most with family matters) so again Sorry I do not mean to take it out here on s2ki.

Ben next time feel free to send me a pm
Thank you for your time

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ben

 

a lot it also depends on which knock off it is. There is ocasionally a knock off that fits well. Although being a shop owner, we get at least one call a week from someone who has bought a knockoff and it didnt fit so they call us about buying the real thing. In more cases than not a knock off will cost significantly more money to fit to the car because it is built off of a mold from a part that was built off of the original mold. Its like a photo copy of a photo copy. Each generation the quality gets worse.

In many cases in fact, the knock off items cost more than the real ones after painting and install. In other cases knock offs fit fine. But from my experience in the industry, in the proper fitting knockoffs are a rarity.

There have been countless copies of the amuse lip. Many didnt fit well at all, some did. Its a large risk.

And in response to the inevitable question regarding rediculous prices and why shops like Bulletproof dont lower them. Simply put, selling knock offs is more profitable than selling geninue parts. We keep the costs as affordable as possible on parts from Japan, and in most cases if we were to sell a knock off bumper (which we would never do) for $395 we'd make more profit on it than if we sold a real Garage Defend bumper for $638 (we control Defend's US pricing, and this is a choice we've made).

 

Wow, nice composure Ben! You've sold me on Bulletproof Automotive. Tim, I'm sorry but your reactions have showed me I do not wish to buy from you...ever. I have recently been screwed over in buying a turbo kit, and you are showing the same attitude that this particular shop owner showed me. Sorry!

 

Ben- I don't anyone would accuse the shops of price gauging. I am friends with a shop owner and, therefore, realise that y'all's mark up is not a lot. You don't make much per part you sell. I think that some, including myself, wonder why the tuning house charges an arm and a leg for the products. Yes, I know there are R&D cost, but does that account for over 100% markup. If they didn't rape the consumer then maybe there wouldn't be a demand for knock-offs. Again, this is no way a flame on you or Bulletproof. I think you all have a great shop with reasonable prices. It's the tuning house that I question.

S2k1- I have purchased several, non- knock off products from Tim and have not had any problems. While another Mid-A member purchased a set of skirts from him and Tim expressed shipped them so they would here and installed for a meet.

 

Tenblade-I'm not doubting Tim has some great products and can provide good products, but the attitude he just showed, emulates the shop owner here that screwed everything up for me. So, I feel that he'll act in the same manner when something does go wrong(not saying it will). I think Ben showed a good attitude and lets me know if something does wrong, I can count on him. In fact, I ordered a Star Stage III clutch from Bulletproof before and it was over a holiday, and they kept e-mailing me with updates letting me know when the product would arrive, which was a ! Just expressing my opinion.

 

No worries, I think both are good for what they do.

 

Its a complicated situation. In short, most manufacturing businesses expect a 100% mark up from the cost of the item. Yes, this mark up is pretty high (actually its low compared to many other industries, but let's assume it is high), but manufacturing involves a lot more capital than being a retailer would (so retailers only get 5-30% mark up most times in this industry). Not only do manufacturers need to pay for R&D, equipment, facilities, etc, but they need to pay a lot of money to market the parts. Taking out a full page add in a magazine like Super Street or Option Magazine in Japan can cost near $10,000 a month! All of these costs add up.

Its easy for someone to look at a $600-$800 bumper and say...thats too much! But there are a lot of associated costs involved in manufacturing, if on a certain scale.

On the other hand, many of the Japanese tuning houses such as Power House Amuse, Feels, and others are very small shops and they dont have all of this equipment. These companies outsource manufacturing (they still do the R&D of course) and their costs are far higher because the outsourced company is pocketing a lot of the money. Not to mention they run small quantity batches. This is also why it takes 2 months to get an item from Japan (1 month for the manufacturer to produce the item because small shops rarely have anything in stock, and 1 month transit by ocean freight). JIT (Just In Time) inventory was originated in Japan and most small tuning shops still keep it this way. They outsource it all and produce them in batches of 1-5 parts at a time. Its not like Ford cranking out 1000 units a day.

At any rate, both types of manufacturing have their own relative costs in running (one has machinery and in house staff) the other pays more on a per unit basis to outsource).

The most profitable way to run a business in this industry is to knock parts off, which is why there are so many companies doing it. Think about it...The most expensive costs are marketing, R&D, and facility/production. A knock off manufacturer ride off of the manufacturer's name think "Amuse style" to get free marketing, pays no R&D other than a couple hundred dollars to make a mold/copy of the part, and usually has no facility because they outsource production quite often. And the outsourced production because the materials are usually cheaper and they are produced in the US, Mexico, China, etc doesnt cost nearly as much to produce because hourly rates are less than Japan and there is no freight from Japan (figure 10-15% of the cost of the item goes just to freight from Japan to the US).

This is how they do it. The sad thing is that when companies like mine decide to become Top Secret III (which we just did) we first evaluate the knock off market, because that is the biggest risk to taking thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars of inventory risk. So in the end, it becomes very hard for deals to happen like what we did with Top Secret. And even now that we've made the deal, I can assure you that we are stocking less product than we would if there weren