Aye, WPC vs Cryo.... and at this rate and my goals, im wondering if I honestly need to do anythin to the block at all. 10psi max? Might be overkill to build for just that amount...

I would be more than happy to talk to anyone face to face if they have evidence to back up a claim instead of theory. I want specific tests that prove a specific component withstood more resistance with cryo vs without. I have searched alot of google for tests and have came up mostly empty handed.

Im back and forth b/t Fla and Socal alot. I used to have a good shop around fla for most tuning needs but they not around anymore ><. Who knows, ...

 

There are a lot of test out there but not a lot anyone can link to. Most are done by cryogenic companies that want to prove results and they don't give results away. It cost about 5k to do a test and they don't want a competitor to use them.

Although cryogenics have been around for a long time most companies doing it started in 1996. Results are mostly kept in house. Nicholas has a cryo drive as well as Nike. Tons of big companies have been using it but they don't post their advantage over someone else. Kerly music has been doing guitar strings but list it as a different process.

You have found several companies that post their own results but independant studies are far and few between.

For 10 psi you don't need to do anything. For 20 psi you don't need to do anything provided you don't race it all the time.

The biggest thing is wear resistance and tensal strength increase. You probably don't need it but the more you learn about it the more it makes sense for cheap insurance.

 

Good info, ty! So what do you think about WPC for the purpose of simply reducing friction and longevity of the engine itself? Im still along way from making the final steps because I wanna consult all the experts and do every little thing I can do to make a solid reliable build for the little amount of boost im using.

 

Cryogenic processing will help reduce friction and increase wear resistance. If you want, stop by S&R Performance in Tampa and you can see many atricles and test that have been done about cryogenics showing great results.

 

I cant pass up the articles and tests! Sounds good, ill be in touch next time im in town.

I do have a question that maybe you can shed light on... I have read a report that cryotreatment does rearrange the microscopic cracks in the metal, but the rearrangement is totally random, and can increase the strength of the metal or make it more brittle. How true is this, if at all?

 

It realigns the crystaline structure of all the metal, making the bonds stronger. Basically it is continuation of the tempering process done below zero. There is tempering that is done well below zero that the manufacturers don't do.

There is a lot more that the process does that I don't have time to type. The process does something for all metals but not the same thing. There are different processes for the different type of metals. Done correctly it will not make the metal more brittle. It might make the rockwell hardness go from 55 to 56. Not significant. The increase in tensil strength will negate any harness increase.

 

Yes, even though I will not be racing or going into high boost, anything that will provide a significant friction reduction in the piston walls and the crank are what I would want.

From some of the reading I have done, its seems, that some metals would benefit more than others, in theory. Iron sleeves would be the most common type of sleeve, if im correct, and to fine tune them out to have the greatest friction reduction is my goal.

I understand how tempering works for steel to increase its strength and there are significant facts and evidence supporting this. I think I also read somewhere that ferrous metals benefit most from this, is that true?

 

yes, ferrous metals benefit the most. Increase tesile strength, reduction in friction, increased wear resistance, and increased heat dissipation.

Other metals benefit but not with wear resistance and tensile strength.

 

Random alignment of the crystaline structure can help reduce friction? I would sure like to se some pictures of how the surface of any metal is arranged to actually reduce friction (surface area) after cryo..... I've never read about cryo treatment lowering the friction on any component. I've only heard of the hardness properties that can be obtained. Making a metal harder and able to WITHSTAND more friction doesn't mean that it has REDUCED friction.

I'm not convinced that cryo treatment is the way to go for friction reduction in this case. Random alignment is not going to produce micro-dimples (WPC does this through a controlled process), thus reducing surface area for friction, as well as oil retention. Overall reducing friction and wear.

Don't you work with Cryo treatment, Sub-Zero..?

 

I think Sub-Zero owns a cryo facility. I have been attempting to get the pros in here to answer questions and shead light on the aspects that I know nothing about.