Advice for a rebuild?
03-15-2014, 05:48 PM
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Advice for a rebuild?
So im deployed right now over seas and my paychecks have been pilling up so im planning on going home and getting my motor rebuild. Ive already got skunk 2 headers, berk test pipe and t1r dual as well as a CAI. I also picked up toda cams, cam gears and Ti valve springs but dont have them installed. I want to keep it NA and reliable while doin a performance rebuild. I got $$ to play with it so my question what are yalls advice. Thanks for reading!
03-15-2014, 07:05 PM
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With that kind of budget I would recommend you call the best URGE he will be able to build you something really nice
They do really high end builds I currently have a gt engine on order with itb cams titanium rods the whole nine yard and whatever you decide to do he will be able to help you out and give you the right advice he also have the best itb available for these car
On another note that header you have might not give you any power gain and might end up loosing some even so I would look into this it can be a weak link in your setup
The cams you have are ok but really not that aggressive and that is a major issue currently with the s2k so you will def gain something with them but maybe not that much
The bc2 makes really nice gains and is proven besides this on this engine it is really the attention to details that will get you the big numbers
I was able to hit 241.9 whp with a stock block stock head and stock intake manifold on a ap2 but there was a lot of little tricks that got me there and the most important thing to do is to document every part you put on there to make sure that they are giving you gains and not regressing you
That's what I did on mine and you would be surprised how many parts we took off the car because it was not working as much as we liked
so all in all is you need to be patient with your build and if you are after the big numbers you need to ask the right guys about what works and what does not but also be aware that there is a lot of disinformation on the web especially with these car
Hope this helps!
They do really high end builds I currently have a gt engine on order with itb cams titanium rods the whole nine yard and whatever you decide to do he will be able to help you out and give you the right advice he also have the best itb available for these car
On another note that header you have might not give you any power gain and might end up loosing some even so I would look into this it can be a weak link in your setup
The cams you have are ok but really not that aggressive and that is a major issue currently with the s2k so you will def gain something with them but maybe not that much
The bc2 makes really nice gains and is proven besides this on this engine it is really the attention to details that will get you the big numbers
I was able to hit 241.9 whp with a stock block stock head and stock intake manifold on a ap2 but there was a lot of little tricks that got me there and the most important thing to do is to document every part you put on there to make sure that they are giving you gains and not regressing you
That's what I did on mine and you would be surprised how many parts we took off the car because it was not working as much as we liked
so all in all is you need to be patient with your build and if you are after the big numbers you need to ask the right guys about what works and what does not but also be aware that there is a lot of disinformation on the web especially with these car
Hope this helps!
03-15-2014, 10:28 PM
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With that kind of budget I would recommend you call the best URGE he will be able to build you something really nice
They do really high end builds I currently have a gt engine on order with itb cams titanium rods the whole nine yard and whatever you decide to do he will be able to help you out and give you the right advice he also have the best itb available for these car
On another note that header you have might not give you any power gain and might end up loosing some even so I would look into this it can be a weak link in your setup
The cams you have are ok but really not that aggressive and that is a major issue currently with the s2k so you will def gain something with them but maybe not that much
The bc2 makes really nice gains and is proven besides this on this engine it is really the attention to details that will get you the big numbers
I was able to hit 241.9 whp with a stock block stock head and stock intake manifold on a ap2 but there was a lot of little tricks that got me there and the most important thing to do is to document every part you put on there to make sure that they are giving you gains and not regressing you
That's what I did on mine and you would be surprised how many parts we took off the car because it was not working as much as we liked
so all in all is you need to be patient with your build and if you are after the big numbers you need to ask the right guys about what works and what does not but also be aware that there is a lot of disinformation on the web especially with these car
Hope this helps!
They do really high end builds I currently have a gt engine on order with itb cams titanium rods the whole nine yard and whatever you decide to do he will be able to help you out and give you the right advice he also have the best itb available for these car
On another note that header you have might not give you any power gain and might end up loosing some even so I would look into this it can be a weak link in your setup
The cams you have are ok but really not that aggressive and that is a major issue currently with the s2k so you will def gain something with them but maybe not that much
The bc2 makes really nice gains and is proven besides this on this engine it is really the attention to details that will get you the big numbers
I was able to hit 241.9 whp with a stock block stock head and stock intake manifold on a ap2 but there was a lot of little tricks that got me there and the most important thing to do is to document every part you put on there to make sure that they are giving you gains and not regressing you
That's what I did on mine and you would be surprised how many parts we took off the car because it was not working as much as we liked
so all in all is you need to be patient with your build and if you are after the big numbers you need to ask the right guys about what works and what does not but also be aware that there is a lot of disinformation on the web especially with these car
Hope this helps!
03-16-2014, 02:43 AM
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My goal is mostly to have a fun daily and something i can put on the track back home that will do well. Ive never been a fan of turbo set ups unless theyre done very well and the owner knows all the details on his motor inside and out. Right now with i dont see a turbo being my best option but maybe down the line. And to be 100% honest most of my knowledge has been geared towards suspension tuning. Having an f20c has given me more of an interest into NA engine tuning than say an LS or a D seriers motor did. Before i had the S if i f@#ked up my motor in my civic or teg i could rebuild it for under 300. Now having this motor i think i should take advantage of learning aabout the somewhat "big boy" motor in the honda game and do a proper performance rebuild of this already great platform. Anyways i would like to make 230-240hp NA while learning more about the F series motor. Id like to take the car out on the twisties n have some more fire power than a exhaust and cai do.
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03-16-2014, 07:21 AM
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I think you have the right way of thinking for this build and you will have a blast
trying to out perform the hp per liter this car have
The trick is to use a dyno to verify and keep doing it wen you will be playing with bolt on because it will happened that you do something and either it does not give you anything or you loose some (like that header for ex)
On that if you want advice with your bolt on setup I can help you and have no problem with this and as you can see they way I did mine was smart and got the return on my hp
There is a couple of key element you need to look at and they are vibration heat and plenum size
Wen I did mine I took car of removing vibrations via a crank damper these car go very high rpm wise and it is a good idea to protect you investment and at the same time free a few pony up it wont be much but that's how I scraped to get my numbers
Also you need to look at heat soak as it is a issue with these car I will give you an example the intake manifold does a lot of heat transfer to the head making you loose some power so using a nylon gasket for the throttle body and intake manifold will help you find some power and reduce over all heat soak that this car gets
Once you do cams and the rest of the good bolt on you have you will want to buy various size throttle body spacer and play with the over all length of your plenum to see what reacts the best with your setup
Honda made the plenum too small in my opinion and you can gain a some by extending it I ended up with a 1.5 inch extension and got some gains with it from 6000 to 8400rpm
Also I would look into managing heat via other method like coating your final header choice vented hood and what not and I also would recommend since your running a ap1 a gear change to either a 4.44 and the preferred 4.77 as this will give you a nice kick in torque and will help your 0-60 by a good amount
It is important to take advantage of owning a high rpm application car like this so my recommendation is to use gearing to your advantage since you got the rpm to take advantage of this I say go for it the gains are impressive !
If your are also planning to t rack the car you will need a oil cooler and baffled pan I personally use a greaddy with air scoop and got great result with it but it is on the expensive end and for a baffled pan you can send your oem to URGE and they can make you one for a couple hundred dollars and it is mandatory on these car if you track with sticky tires you don't want to starve it from oil
Also try and look for a descent intake if you don't plan on going with itb's buy something like a password jdm dry carbon piece I think it is one of the best available for this car and does not sound over aggressive like the aem and since it is made of carbon further reduces heat soaking
If you want to look at a better header that as been proven to work nice on these stock engine look into the toda torque-kun that's what I am running on mine and saw gains true out the power band but it is on the expensive side and another thing you need to watch out for is that it is a stepped header design so what works on a stock engine might not on a fully build engine
It get expensive to really do something with these car because the parts really engineered that works are quite expensive and all the dyno time needed to make sure that the bolt on combination is best cost a lot to get it done but I can say that my car was the most impressive stock block setup s I ever got a chance to drive I got a couple of friends that threw money at theres like crazy just to end up really disappointed with the end result and that was on the same dyno
Here's a picture of the header and the oil cooler installed so you can see them also take a look at the build quality on that today they are amazing!!
trying to out perform the hp per liter this car have
The trick is to use a dyno to verify and keep doing it wen you will be playing with bolt on because it will happened that you do something and either it does not give you anything or you loose some (like that header for ex)
On that if you want advice with your bolt on setup I can help you and have no problem with this and as you can see they way I did mine was smart and got the return on my hp
There is a couple of key element you need to look at and they are vibration heat and plenum size
Wen I did mine I took car of removing vibrations via a crank damper these car go very high rpm wise and it is a good idea to protect you investment and at the same time free a few pony up it wont be much but that's how I scraped to get my numbers
Also you need to look at heat soak as it is a issue with these car I will give you an example the intake manifold does a lot of heat transfer to the head making you loose some power so using a nylon gasket for the throttle body and intake manifold will help you find some power and reduce over all heat soak that this car gets
Once you do cams and the rest of the good bolt on you have you will want to buy various size throttle body spacer and play with the over all length of your plenum to see what reacts the best with your setup
Honda made the plenum too small in my opinion and you can gain a some by extending it I ended up with a 1.5 inch extension and got some gains with it from 6000 to 8400rpm
Also I would look into managing heat via other method like coating your final header choice vented hood and what not and I also would recommend since your running a ap1 a gear change to either a 4.44 and the preferred 4.77 as this will give you a nice kick in torque and will help your 0-60 by a good amount
It is important to take advantage of owning a high rpm application car like this so my recommendation is to use gearing to your advantage since you got the rpm to take advantage of this I say go for it the gains are impressive !
If your are also planning to t rack the car you will need a oil cooler and baffled pan I personally use a greaddy with air scoop and got great result with it but it is on the expensive end and for a baffled pan you can send your oem to URGE and they can make you one for a couple hundred dollars and it is mandatory on these car if you track with sticky tires you don't want to starve it from oil
Also try and look for a descent intake if you don't plan on going with itb's buy something like a password jdm dry carbon piece I think it is one of the best available for this car and does not sound over aggressive like the aem and since it is made of carbon further reduces heat soaking
If you want to look at a better header that as been proven to work nice on these stock engine look into the toda torque-kun that's what I am running on mine and saw gains true out the power band but it is on the expensive side and another thing you need to watch out for is that it is a stepped header design so what works on a stock engine might not on a fully build engine
It get expensive to really do something with these car because the parts really engineered that works are quite expensive and all the dyno time needed to make sure that the bolt on combination is best cost a lot to get it done but I can say that my car was the most impressive stock block setup s I ever got a chance to drive I got a couple of friends that threw money at theres like crazy just to end up really disappointed with the end result and that was on the same dyno
Here's a picture of the header and the oil cooler installed so you can see them also take a look at the build quality on that today they are amazing!!
03-16-2014, 09:50 AM
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ok So I was doing some thinking on your setup and budget and this is what I came up with
There will be a couple of thing that you need to take into consideration first you own a ap1 there is advantage and disadvantage lets look at them
1. you got the rpm advantage over the ap2 so you can run much steeper gears and get away with it right of the bat
2. you have less displacement then a ap2 so you will make 10-14 whp less with similar setup but
That 10-14 whp difference is not as big as you think because you will get almost 20% more torque from that 4.77 which is a massive kick in the pants and in the end it is not about numbers only its over all setup efficiency and how well it ties in together
Here are my recommendation for your setup and budget
Stage one
1.toda torqui kun 1800$
2.brian crower bc2 cam 700$ (make sure you use your aftermarket spring you got)
3.your toda cam gear 0$
4.hondata intake manifold gasket 50$
5.throttle body nylon gasket 15$
6.URGE crank damper 375$
7.password jdm dry carbon intake 1099$
8. kpro and new rsx computer 1500$
9. evs ssp 70 mm exhaust 900$
10. test pipe 150$
11. URGE velocity head work 1900$
12. throttle body spacers 200-300$ (buy different size)
13.4.77 gear 700$
14. tuning 500$
Total would be 9989$ and this does not include labor or shipping but this will turn your car into a whole other new beast I think you will be truly impressed with the gains out of this setup!
It is a bit over your budget but that's what I would do if it was mine
Word to the moderators I mixed up 2 post so I took the part and copy pasted it on is thread I hope it does not get any one pissed off here
There will be a couple of thing that you need to take into consideration first you own a ap1 there is advantage and disadvantage lets look at them
1. you got the rpm advantage over the ap2 so you can run much steeper gears and get away with it right of the bat
2. you have less displacement then a ap2 so you will make 10-14 whp less with similar setup but
That 10-14 whp difference is not as big as you think because you will get almost 20% more torque from that 4.77 which is a massive kick in the pants and in the end it is not about numbers only its over all setup efficiency and how well it ties in together
Here are my recommendation for your setup and budget
Stage one
1.toda torqui kun 1800$
2.brian crower bc2 cam 700$ (make sure you use your aftermarket spring you got)
3.your toda cam gear 0$
4.hondata intake manifold gasket 50$
5.throttle body nylon gasket 15$
6.URGE crank damper 375$
7.password jdm dry carbon intake 1099$
8. kpro and new rsx computer 1500$
9. evs ssp 70 mm exhaust 900$
10. test pipe 150$
11. URGE velocity head work 1900$
12. throttle body spacers 200-300$ (buy different size)
13.4.77 gear 700$
14. tuning 500$
Total would be 9989$ and this does not include labor or shipping but this will turn your car into a whole other new beast I think you will be truly impressed with the gains out of this setup!
It is a bit over your budget but that's what I would do if it was mine
Word to the moderators I mixed up 2 post so I took the part and copy pasted it on is thread I hope it does not get any one pissed off here
03-16-2014, 04:07 PM
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Sweet! Thats alotnof helpful information and i really appreciate it. I emailed URGE and one of the things he mentioned was investing in an ap2 crank. Another was dual valve springs instead of the Toda ones i have. Have any opinions on them? Im still considering just going with the URGE build but that takes the fun out of figuring out what works and what doesnt. Then again having a motor from a reputable place like that would be pretty sweet too. Im gonna keep weighing my options but soon here id like to get the ball rolling and start moving.
Anyone else who can weigh in on this, i would love to hear your reasoning. Thanks alot gents!
Anyone else who can weigh in on this, i would love to hear your reasoning. Thanks alot gents!
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