Most functional oil catch can
07-25-2015, 07:26 PM
#42
With that said, I've run them higher than the engine a few times and it still collected condensation. Virtually every catch can and AOS on a Subaru is higher than the motor since the flat motor sits so low. They all seem to work just fine. 
07-26-2015, 10:30 AM
#43
I'll continue to test and use what works. As you've already found , the manufacturer isn't always right. Also, the purpose of the catch can is really to keep the oil from getting into the intake tract. It's not a big deal to let it [the small amount] drip back into the motor.
, the manufacturer isn't always right. Also, the purpose of the catch can is really to keep the oil from getting into the intake tract. It's not a big deal to let it [the small amount] drip back into the motor.
07-26-2015, 12:09 PM
#44
How about this David... we'll take a look at this at a functional standpoint since you never seem to get it. To start, from Mishimoto:
"Every turbo system deserves to be complemented by a proper oil catch can setup, also known as an air oil separator. An oil catch can prevents oil from accumulating in the air intake tract, which would have a negative impact on the efficiency of your intercooler. Once the oil reaches the combustion chamber, it will have an adverse effect on the fuel air mixture. Both issues can be avoided easily by installing a Mishimoto oil catch can tank or an air oil separator. Our catch tanks include all the necessary hoses, clamps, bracket, and hardware for your custom install. As with our overflow reservoir tank, the catch can is offered in several unique finishes, including aluminum, black, and carbon fiber. The oil catch can and radiator tank add style and practicality to your engine bay."
Also, their directions do not mention anything about mounting it above the engine:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...stallGuide.pdf
Looking at Radium, they also say roughly the same thing (which is what I said about a catch cans purpose in an above post):
"An oil catch can is essential on a performance vehicle to protect the engine from elevated levels of crankcase blow-by accumulated from aggressive driving. Excess oil saturated air circulating back into the air intake stream can lead to degraded performance"
Their Oil Catch Can 101 blog doesn't mention anything about mounting it lower. They do reference an "FD championship winning E46 M3" with the following picture and it's mounting does not conform to your claim:
I took a look at Saikou Michi's website as well... I couldn't find anything about mounting it lower than the engine. What I did find is a mounting location for a Subaru on their site that mounts it higher than the engine.
For reference, here is my STi engine bay with a Crawford unit mounted in the same location.
The port it draws from on the top of the block is under the turbo.
From what I've seen over the years, many people who get/want catch cans really want the bling. Sure it works (when implemented properly), but people spend the big money on very simple device for the bling. To also add, if you do a quick image search on Google, you'll find nearly everyone mounts their catch can high.
So where are these manufacturer's recommendations you're following?
"Every turbo system deserves to be complemented by a proper oil catch can setup, also known as an air oil separator. An oil catch can prevents oil from accumulating in the air intake tract, which would have a negative impact on the efficiency of your intercooler. Once the oil reaches the combustion chamber, it will have an adverse effect on the fuel air mixture. Both issues can be avoided easily by installing a Mishimoto oil catch can tank or an air oil separator. Our catch tanks include all the necessary hoses, clamps, bracket, and hardware for your custom install. As with our overflow reservoir tank, the catch can is offered in several unique finishes, including aluminum, black, and carbon fiber. The oil catch can and radiator tank add style and practicality to your engine bay."
Also, their directions do not mention anything about mounting it above the engine:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...stallGuide.pdf
Looking at Radium, they also say roughly the same thing (which is what I said about a catch cans purpose in an above post):
"An oil catch can is essential on a performance vehicle to protect the engine from elevated levels of crankcase blow-by accumulated from aggressive driving. Excess oil saturated air circulating back into the air intake stream can lead to degraded performance"
Their Oil Catch Can 101 blog doesn't mention anything about mounting it lower. They do reference an "FD championship winning E46 M3" with the following picture and it's mounting does not conform to your claim:
I took a look at Saikou Michi's website as well... I couldn't find anything about mounting it lower than the engine. What I did find is a mounting location for a Subaru on their site that mounts it higher than the engine.
For reference, here is my STi engine bay with a Crawford unit mounted in the same location.
The port it draws from on the top of the block is under the turbo.
From what I've seen over the years, many people who get/want catch cans really want the bling. Sure it works (when implemented properly), but people spend the big money on very simple device for the bling. To also add, if you do a quick image search on Google, you'll find nearly everyone mounts their catch can high.
So where are these manufacturer's recommendations you're following?
07-26-2015, 01:02 PM
#45
The only real consideration with forced induction is when making it a closed loop system, you don't hook the lines up to a boosted port on the intake tract. This is mostly an issue when people boost cars that were not previously boosted and reconnect the PCV/CCV systems like factory, in which case they blow out seals because they are not pressurizing the crankcase. Other than that, it operates the same with more volume.
Link to those instructions? None of the ones I found online to the three companies you referenced said anything about location other than keeping it away from heat. Coincidentally, some heat isn't a bad thing as it keeps it from turning into sludge and clogging lines. This is a probably on even a factory Subaru since they mounted metal CCV pipes onto an intercooler. In winter, it transfers that cool temperature very well and causes the lines to get gummy.
As far as taking turns... I respond to misinformation. If you keep posting it, especially without a credible source to back it up, I will respond, especially to you at this point in time. Aside from me understanding exactly how these work and why people run them, I literally just showed you the information from the three said companies you tried to nail me against and not a single one of them supported your claim about mounting location or "If there are dipsdips in the hoses oil vapor can condense and either block or drain back, defeating the purpose of the catch cans".
Catch cans and Air Oil Seperators are implemented to keep oil out of the intake tract. Oil in the intake will gum up anything it comes in contact with over time, reduce cooling efficiency of intercoolers, and lowers octane. The AOS' I run on both my STi and S2000 PURPOSELY drain the "contaminates" back into the crankcase for a no-maintenance setup. I put my AOS on my STi when I did my first turbo and intercooler upgrade. After several years, the turbo and intercooler were completely dry when I took them off to sell. Prior to that, you could pour oil out of the intercooler and turbo.
Link to those instructions? None of the ones I found online to the three companies you referenced said anything about location other than keeping it away from heat. Coincidentally, some heat isn't a bad thing as it keeps it from turning into sludge and clogging lines. This is a probably on even a factory Subaru since they mounted metal CCV pipes onto an intercooler. In winter, it transfers that cool temperature very well and causes the lines to get gummy.
As far as taking turns... I respond to misinformation. If you keep posting it, especially without a credible source to back it up, I will respond, especially to you at this point in time. Aside from me understanding exactly how these work and why people run them, I literally just showed you the information from the three said companies you tried to nail me against and not a single one of them supported your claim about mounting location or "If there are dipsdips in the hoses oil vapor can condense and either block or drain back, defeating the purpose of the catch cans".
Catch cans and Air Oil Seperators are implemented to keep oil out of the intake tract. Oil in the intake will gum up anything it comes in contact with over time, reduce cooling efficiency of intercoolers, and lowers octane. The AOS' I run on both my STi and S2000 PURPOSELY drain the "contaminates" back into the crankcase for a no-maintenance setup. I put my AOS on my STi when I did my first turbo and intercooler upgrade. After several years, the turbo and intercooler were completely dry when I took them off to sell. Prior to that, you could pour oil out of the intercooler and turbo.
07-27-2015, 08:51 AM
#47
Registered User
Yes, obviously you don't want to incorporate an 'S-trap' like the one found at the bottom of your toilet but besides that, it doesn't matter if the AOS is above or below the engine.
01-22-2016, 06:12 PM
#49
The only real consideration with forced induction is when making it a closed loop system, you don't hook the lines up to a boosted port on the intake tract. This is mostly an issue when people boost cars that were not previously boosted and reconnect the PCV/CCV systems like factory, in which case they blow out seals because they are not pressurizing the crankcase. Other than that, it operates the same with more volume.
Link to those instructions? None of the ones I found online to the three companies you referenced said anything about location other than keeping it away from heat. Coincidentally, some heat isn't a bad thing as it keeps it from turning into sludge and clogging lines. This is a probably on even a factory Subaru since they mounted metal CCV pipes onto an intercooler. In winter, it transfers that cool temperature very well and causes the lines to get gummy.
As far as taking turns... I respond to misinformation. If you keep posting it, especially without a credible source to back it up, I will respond, especially to you at this point in time. Aside from me understanding exactly how these work and why people run them, I literally just showed you the information from the three said companies you tried to nail me against and not a single one of them supported your claim about mounting location or "If there are dipsdips in the hoses oil vapor can condense and either block or drain back, defeating the purpose of the catch cans".
Catch cans and Air Oil Seperators are implemented to keep oil out of the intake tract. Oil in the intake will gum up anything it comes in contact with over time, reduce cooling efficiency of intercoolers, and lowers octane. The AOS' I run on both my STi and S2000 PURPOSELY drain the "contaminates" back into the crankcase for a no-maintenance setup. I put my AOS on my STi when I did my first turbo and intercooler upgrade. After several years, the turbo and intercooler were completely dry when I took them off to sell. Prior to that, you could pour oil out of the intercooler and turbo.
Link to those instructions? None of the ones I found online to the three companies you referenced said anything about location other than keeping it away from heat. Coincidentally, some heat isn't a bad thing as it keeps it from turning into sludge and clogging lines. This is a probably on even a factory Subaru since they mounted metal CCV pipes onto an intercooler. In winter, it transfers that cool temperature very well and causes the lines to get gummy.
As far as taking turns... I respond to misinformation. If you keep posting it, especially without a credible source to back it up, I will respond, especially to you at this point in time. Aside from me understanding exactly how these work and why people run them, I literally just showed you the information from the three said companies you tried to nail me against and not a single one of them supported your claim about mounting location or "If there are dipsdips in the hoses oil vapor can condense and either block or drain back, defeating the purpose of the catch cans".
Catch cans and Air Oil Seperators are implemented to keep oil out of the intake tract. Oil in the intake will gum up anything it comes in contact with over time, reduce cooling efficiency of intercoolers, and lowers octane. The AOS' I run on both my STi and S2000 PURPOSELY drain the "contaminates" back into the crankcase for a no-maintenance setup. I put my AOS on my STi when I did my first turbo and intercooler upgrade. After several years, the turbo and intercooler were completely dry when I took them off to sell. Prior to that, you could pour oil out of the intercooler and turbo.
, I've got a question for you.Just SC'ed my car...when it comes to catch cans, I'll probably get the Michi dual cans. Do you think the proper way to install them is same as the stock lines with the SC? In other words, one between the PCV and the intake manifold, and one between the valve cover and the place in connects on the SC air intake?
And, I may decide to drain them back into the oil pan, even Lake Speed says no big deal on that (basically he said that all the crap came out of the engine in the first place, so dumping that small amount back into the pan is fine), But, we'd still want a valve on that closed all the time unless I drain it, correct?
01-23-2016, 06:36 AM
#50
I've been running the Radium single catch can ap1 setup, but I haven't been catching much oil. It just barely registers on the bottom of the dipstick. Either I'm not getting much oil vapours or the can isn't working that great. Everything is connected fine, if I disconnect the return line there is lots of suction at idle (no leaks I assume). I have an ap2 valvecover which may be helping somewhat. Hopefully I can test it in some hard cornering conditions in the spring.