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Old 12-25-2015, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Gernby View Post
Neurotic, your tune pulls 1 degree of timing for every 9 degrees of IAT above 107F, and it pulls 0.7 degrees for every 10 degrees of ECT above 203F. Your car was on the dyno for a long time, and did a lot of pulls. I don't know how much time you've spent on dynos, but I've spent a LOT of time on them. When an S2000 has done 5 or more pulls, heat soak becomes a HUGE issue, and 3-5 minutes between pulls does NOT compensate for it, ESPECIALLY if the car is idling. At idle, the temps will climb for several minutes after a pull.
For between run times greater than a minute, the car was off. Otherwise the radiator fans put a lot of hot air over all the intake bits. On the dyno, I can't recall seeing IATs or ECTs that high; especially with the DBW car's IAT sensor location.

Originally Posted by Gernby View Post
Originally Posted by neurotic' timestamp='1450537251' post='23832002
Ok, so how do the numbers compare?
Your peak power is at or above anything I've personally seen in years on my S2000 (even with ITB's). I went over 220 on a dynojet 4 years ago, but that was SAE corrected. I suspect that the dynojet you used might read high, considering your tune.
The dyno reads reasonably (with other cars) and is one of the area's NASA approved/certified dynos.

This supports my assertion that the car is healthy despite using les timing than other S2000's, and is not likely pulling timing whilst on the dyno.

Originally Posted by Gernby View Post
Originally Posted by neurotic' timestamp='1450537251' post='23832002
Regardless, I think the Gern-pipe does change breathing. Although, the affect is not necessarily additive to other breathing modifications.
I agree with this 100%, and will say that it would be true for every good power adder available. A normally aspirated motor is truly an accoustic instrument, and the interaction between parts is unpredictable. While doing ITB and exhaust development over the last couple years (EDIT: simultaneously on the K24), I found that every change in the exhaust required some change to the ITBs. Every time I changed a diameter or length on 1 side, I had to change the diameter or length on the other side, or I would lose power. That's why there is so much confusion and disagreement on the interweb about which intake or exhaust is the best, since they really have to be considered together.

That leads to another question about your intake setup. Was your intake setup "dialed in" using the previous exhaust, or the new exhaust? If so, then I suggest dialing it in again, since the optimal length will be different.
The intake was developed with the 70EM setup, but alternates were tested with the Gern-pipe. I reverted to the control intake (modified FIPK) and tried some length variations, but the existing intake outperformed the others. Since the manifolds didn't change, I mostly expected the intake requirements/resonances would stay the same.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by neurotic View Post
For between run times greater than a minute, the car was off. Otherwise the radiator fans put a lot of hot air over all the intake bits. On the dyno, I can't recall seeing IATs or ECTs that high; especially with the DBW car's IAT sensor location.
Turning off the engine between pulls early in the dyno session is helpfull, since it's beneficial to get everything up to normal operating temperature. However, after a few pulls, you really need to A) hold the engine revs at ~2K RPMs between pulls until ECT1 drops into the low 190's, or (B) shut it off for a longer period of time.

Your FlashPro tune is using the OEM cooling settings, which uses the radiator's temp sensor (ECT2) to control the cooling fan (On at 199F, Off at 194F). This is great in regular driving with the hood closed, but not for a long dyno session. Since the water pump's flow is so low at idle, the radiator temp (ECT2) will be much cooler than the engine temp (ECT1). The engine temp can be well into the 200's, and the radiator fan won't even be running. At the end of a pull, if the engine is shut off, ECT2 will shoot even higher in the 200's, while the radiator temp gets cooled way back down into the 180's by the shop fan. If you do another pull 3 minutes later, there would be a large delta between ECT1 and ECT2, so the ECU will retard ignition timing.

Whenever I put my car(s) on the dyno, I alter the cooling settings like this:
* Disable second ECT sensor
* Disable "Use second ECT sensor for fan control"
* Radiator fan on: 190F
* Radiator fan off: 189F
* Turn interior A/C to full hot to increase cooling system capacity

After the dyno session, I change those settings back to stock.

IAT's on a dyno with the hood open are really not a concern for heat soak.

Originally Posted by neurotic View Post
The dyno reads reasonably (with other cars) and is one of the area's NASA approved/certified dynos.

This supports my assertion that the car is healthy despite using les timing than other S2000's, and is not likely pulling timing whilst on the dyno.
That's good to hear! That just means your car is making great power! My S2000 (with ITB's) is making less than 220 on the NASA approved / certified dyno I use.

Originally Posted by neurotic View Post
The intake was developed with the 70EM setup, but alternates were tested with the Gern-pipe. I reverted to the control intake (modified FIPK) and tried some length variations, but the existing intake outperformed the others. Since the manifolds didn't change, I mostly expected the intake requirements/resonances would stay the same.
If your optimal intake setup does stay the same, that would be great!
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Old 01-06-2016, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by award78 View Post
Don't forget, differences in drone is also a serious selling point for us old guys. Did you ever measure sound levels for the 70EM and HFC?
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ES2K View Post
Originally Posted by award78' timestamp='1450106909' post='23827405
Don't forget, differences in drone is also a serious selling point for us old guys. Did you ever measure sound levels for the 70EM and HFC?
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As Gernby noted, there is no official standard for measuring sound or drone so we have nothing to compare to or base a measurement off of. Back to back is really the only option I don't have a HFC cat and Gernby doest have 70EM back end and neither of our cars have been near each other for a while. We live 3 hours a part.

As noted on several reviews the Gern Pipe has minimal to no drone in the scavenging range of 3500-6000 which is perfect for causing. Above that it should great/mean like an exhaust should.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:14 PM
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Finally getting around to posting these pictures...

Here's my Gernby pipe install, after a few hundred miles of use. I put it together with 3" bends and pipe sections I just had lying around so there's a bunch of joints It terminates into a light Vibrant 3" muffler. I galled the V-band clamp that came with it during install/reinstall, so I ended up replacing it with a Vibrant clamp. I also cut/re-welded the input flange (post header) to tilt it somewhat to give me more room.









Results: 11/10 would buy again. Gernby: excellent goddamn work. The number reason I wanted to get one of these was drone. I had tried a couple of smaller diameter systems with quarter wave resonators, and they worked well, but it was extra weight and I didn't like the idea of trying to make another one on a 3" system. I had been running a 3" straight pipe to the Vibrant muffler for the longest time (modified Berk system) and although it sounded [email protected]#king amazing at full tilt, making the drive from LA to Laguna Seca had me wanting to die from the drone I had to endure. The Gernby pipe though? NO DRONE. It works perfectly. It's a loud exhaust as I have it configured, but there ISN'T ANY DRONE. Again, Gernby, great work--I read your patent before I pulled the trigger--it's convincing
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:15 AM
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Hi Urge, are you going to consider making a quite single version on your exhaust?
Some kind of dual pass muffler or something similar to Gernbys crazy design http://s60.photobucket.com/user/suzu..._3879.jpg.html (how does this even fit?)
I got a T1R 70mm EM single right now and it's a bit to loud on track days (95dB limit), when I'm going ITB's it wont be any better
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:24 AM
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thepoi, THANK YOU for the update. Gernby is indeed a mad scientist and we are blessed to work with him and be the exclusive licensee on the S2000.

Great pictures and the custom exhaust looks great!

Originally Posted by flanders View Post
Hi Urge, are you going to consider making a quite single version on your exhaust?
Some kind of dual pass muffler or something similar to Gernbys crazy design http://s60.photobucket.com/user/suzu..._3879.jpg.html (how does this even fit?)
I got a T1R 70mm EM single right now and it's a bit to loud on track days (95dB limit), when I'm going ITB's it wont be any better
Flanders, that is a great question. By far the most popular exhaust is the Dual as it is quieter, yet makes a few more hp (less back pressure at high RPM) and it fits the S2000 design/bumper. It only weighs 8 lbs more.

As far as making a dual pass, we have not had that request as it can create some back pressure at high RPM and most clients what maximum power.

We do offer the mid pipe as a stand alone and several customers like thepoi have created exactly what they want. Due to being a repeat URGE customer, we can offer a combo discount to you and you can make a custom exhaust.

Due to the limited S2000 market, car EOL 2009, ~110,000 cars made we simply can't carry more than 2 SKUs for the exhaust section and we have limited ourselves to stock the Dual and Single. We will be making Titanium for one off customers but that will be expensive.

If you have a Dual pass muffler in mind, please send us a link and we can consider a one off for the exhaust, but it might be a few months.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by thepoi View Post
Results: 11/10 would buy again. Gernby: excellent goddamn work. The number reason I wanted to get one of these was drone. I had tried a couple of smaller diameter systems with quarter wave resonators, and they worked well, but it was extra weight and I didn't like the idea of trying to make another one on a 3" system. I had been running a 3" straight pipe to the Vibrant muffler for the longest time (modified Berk system) and although it sounded [email protected]#king amazing at full tilt, making the drive from LA to Laguna Seca had me wanting to die from the drone I had to endure. The Gernby pipe though? NO DRONE. It works perfectly. It's a loud exhaust as I have it configured, but there ISN'T ANY DRONE. Again, Gernby, great work--I read your patent before I pulled the trigger--it's convincing
Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you're happy with it!
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by flanders View Post
Hi Urge, are you going to consider making a quite single version on your exhaust?
Some kind of dual pass muffler or something similar to Gernbys crazy design http://s60.photobucket.com/user/suzu..._3879.jpg.html (how does this even fit?)
I got a T1R 70mm EM single right now and it's a bit to loud on track days (95dB limit), when I'm going ITB's it wont be any better
Wow... I forgot all about that prototype! Thinking back about it, that really was the best single I ever tested, and it performed identically to the 3" straight single. Ultimately, I just didn't like the way singles looked, so I went with the Dingle.

Now I'm thinking about going to my storage room to see if I can find that single prototype...
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:23 AM
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I got a single exhaust bumper cap so not really keen on going back for a dual again, not liking the added weight either.
That's really interesting Gernby, was it reasonably quiet from the outside during WOT as well?
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