Urge / Endyn engine failure
08-21-2014, 07:45 AM
#12
I don't have any experience with the engines that Endyn builds, so I can't comment about them. However, I've worked with Urge (Patrick) quite a bit as a customer and tester, and can honestly say that his commitment to quality is as strong as I've ever seen. The products that he offers are in a constant state of improvement, since he doesn't seem to accept "good enough" as a stopping point.
With regards to him updating his website, I don't believe there is anything "shady" about that. Companies update their policies ALL THE TIME in response to things like this. I do eTunes as a side business, and don't ever mention anything about liability, guarantees, or warranties to my customers, but I damn sure would START talking about limitted warranties if something like this happened!
With regards to him updating his website, I don't believe there is anything "shady" about that. Companies update their policies ALL THE TIME in response to things like this. I do eTunes as a side business, and don't ever mention anything about liability, guarantees, or warranties to my customers, but I damn sure would START talking about limitted warranties if something like this happened!
08-21-2014, 08:30 AM
#13
I just wanted to share a few pieces of our side of the story.
A few things we want to make clear is that the motor was sold to another individual and then resold to MB. We fully stand behind the motor no matter owns the engine, however below is a summary of our interaction with the new owner of the motor.
First, the new customer accused the motor of being down on power. After a bit of back and forth we noticed the customer had installed an intake that was smaller than the TB of the car. We do not believe this has to do with the cause of failure, but is a sign of the customer’s mismanagement of the motor.
[attachment=72345:Intake Chocking TB.png]
Once the intake was swapped the motor gained back 30 HP. Proof that the customer and installer error was substantial.
[attachment=72346
yno after Intake Change.jpeg]
Second, while we were trying to troubleshoot the customer’s self-installed chocking problem, the customer sends us the following tune. We have never seen the AFR on an NA tune fluctuate 1.5 AFR points, let alone fluctuate 3 times with in 4000 RPM. Again, most likely didn’t cause the failure, but a clear sign of a poor tune.
[attachment=72347:Customer's Poor Tune.jpeg]
Third, the customer had claimed our baffled oil pan was inadequate by “looking” at it. I asked about his oil pressure warning light and the customers exact quote “When cornering in a race, it's not possible to look at the gauge”. Well, it is a warning light and if you cannot notice it, what is the point in having a warning light and ignoring it could be a cause of failure.
Fourth, the customer had the motor inspected by an expert and they believe there are no oil starvation issues but questioned the balance of the crank. They claim there are no balancing marks and thus we didnt balance the crank. Below is the before and after balance of the crank with the original customers name on it. It is balanced 6X better than OEM Spec.
[attachment=65048:Greg Davies Crank Balance.jpg]
Fifth, then the customer’s expert said we didn’t have enough weight on the crank to balance the pistons and rods. The customer’s expert is unaware that with an inline 4, pistons and rods balance themselves, two up and two down at all times. Further proof is that you do not use bob weights or enter piston/rod weight when balancing an inline 4 crank. The “expert” must not have ever balanced an inline four crank.
Also, below is a Honda Modified crank that is used in endurance racing that removes 4 of 8 counter weights, again proving that all you need to do is neutral balance an inline 4 crank.
[attachment=65049:Honda Racing Cranks.jpg]
Sixth and Finally we have asked to see the logging of the motor to ensure the engine was being operated properly and to look for clues for the failure. Again, exact quote from the customer “I don't have logs as the AEM EMS V2 which came with the engine doesn't log it as you know”. If is a fact that AEM EMS V2 does log a coincidently someone even recommended him to enable logging in his own thread, which has since been deleted.
After all this, we had little confidence that the motor could be properly tuned, maintained and diagnosed so we requested the motor back to possibly warranty the motor.
So we are in a situation where we have a lack of confidence in the customer, installer, tuner and expert
The motor was delivered broken in with 2 full days of dyno sessions and tune via tuning instruction. If there were any bearing or balance problems the engine would not have survived our 2 days of dyno session, the customers 2 different dyno sessions (Before and after choking the motor), race qualifying and a full race where the customer podiumed.
I am not aware of any engine builder, or any manufacture of any product that will let a customer diagnose a failure and pay them parts and labor for their own repair, especially with the correspondence we have had with the customer. All we have is pictures from the customer, no data, ECU logs, post balance sheets, etc. We have asked repeatedly for the motor to be shipped back to diagnose, inspect and repair. Our last 10+ emails with the customer have ended in this same request.
A few things we want to make clear is that the motor was sold to another individual and then resold to MB. We fully stand behind the motor no matter owns the engine, however below is a summary of our interaction with the new owner of the motor.
First, the new customer accused the motor of being down on power. After a bit of back and forth we noticed the customer had installed an intake that was smaller than the TB of the car. We do not believe this has to do with the cause of failure, but is a sign of the customer’s mismanagement of the motor.
[attachment=72345:Intake Chocking TB.png]
Once the intake was swapped the motor gained back 30 HP. Proof that the customer and installer error was substantial.
[attachment=72346
yno after Intake Change.jpeg]Second, while we were trying to troubleshoot the customer’s self-installed chocking problem, the customer sends us the following tune. We have never seen the AFR on an NA tune fluctuate 1.5 AFR points, let alone fluctuate 3 times with in 4000 RPM. Again, most likely didn’t cause the failure, but a clear sign of a poor tune.
[attachment=72347:Customer's Poor Tune.jpeg]
Third, the customer had claimed our baffled oil pan was inadequate by “looking” at it. I asked about his oil pressure warning light and the customers exact quote “When cornering in a race, it's not possible to look at the gauge”. Well, it is a warning light and if you cannot notice it, what is the point in having a warning light and ignoring it could be a cause of failure.
Fourth, the customer had the motor inspected by an expert and they believe there are no oil starvation issues but questioned the balance of the crank. They claim there are no balancing marks and thus we didnt balance the crank. Below is the before and after balance of the crank with the original customers name on it. It is balanced 6X better than OEM Spec.
[attachment=65048:Greg Davies Crank Balance.jpg]
Fifth, then the customer’s expert said we didn’t have enough weight on the crank to balance the pistons and rods. The customer’s expert is unaware that with an inline 4, pistons and rods balance themselves, two up and two down at all times. Further proof is that you do not use bob weights or enter piston/rod weight when balancing an inline 4 crank. The “expert” must not have ever balanced an inline four crank.
Also, below is a Honda Modified crank that is used in endurance racing that removes 4 of 8 counter weights, again proving that all you need to do is neutral balance an inline 4 crank.
[attachment=65049:Honda Racing Cranks.jpg]
Sixth and Finally we have asked to see the logging of the motor to ensure the engine was being operated properly and to look for clues for the failure. Again, exact quote from the customer “I don't have logs as the AEM EMS V2 which came with the engine doesn't log it as you know”. If is a fact that AEM EMS V2 does log a coincidently someone even recommended him to enable logging in his own thread, which has since been deleted.
After all this, we had little confidence that the motor could be properly tuned, maintained and diagnosed so we requested the motor back to possibly warranty the motor.
So we are in a situation where we have a lack of confidence in the customer, installer, tuner and expert
- Blamed us for their own loss in power due to installing an intake that was smaller than the TB (why didnt the installer comment on this obvious issue and just installed as is)
- Completely re-tuned our good tune with a wildly fluctuating AFR ratio (poor tuning)
- Has admitted to not monitoring to warning lights while racing (customer negligence)
- Has change their blame of failure 3 times (blaming anything to get us to pay them to fix with out proof)
- Including a blame from an "expert" that doesn’t apply to inline 4s (expert is not aware of inline 4 balancing procedure)
- Cant provide us with any ECU logs & is even unaware that his ECU logs (based on the tune we can understand why the tuner didn’t enable it)
The motor was delivered broken in with 2 full days of dyno sessions and tune via tuning instruction. If there were any bearing or balance problems the engine would not have survived our 2 days of dyno session, the customers 2 different dyno sessions (Before and after choking the motor), race qualifying and a full race where the customer podiumed.
I am not aware of any engine builder, or any manufacture of any product that will let a customer diagnose a failure and pay them parts and labor for their own repair, especially with the correspondence we have had with the customer. All we have is pictures from the customer, no data, ECU logs, post balance sheets, etc. We have asked repeatedly for the motor to be shipped back to diagnose, inspect and repair. Our last 10+ emails with the customer have ended in this same request.
__________________
08-21-2014, 01:43 PM
#16
Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies.
As I say I didn't want to have to post this but I have no option and others need to be aware.
Also as I said, to be fair to Urge they have not been able to see the engine but there's a very good reason for that! I wanted to be sure that I would be covered if I sent it back, as shipping costs alone to the US would be very high. That's the point where it descended and I got all sorts of reasons why this could be my fault, because of things like choking the intake, not fully data logging the engine etc. in The response should have been 'look this is really bad, let's get it sent back and we will sort you out' In hindsight I'm glad I didn't blindly send it or I would have been in for a massive bill a I would not have got a fair inspection.
It wasn't the response hence I lost all confidence and had to get it looked at here.
Actually feel Urge have backed the wrong horse with Endyn and are stuck in the middle, so I have a little sympathy but not a lot. Urge have been fine up until this. Below is an example of the customer service you can expect from Endyn. (This was prior to full strip when we thought it was oil starvation) I didn't get a reply.
They have $17k I have a destroyed engine and another $5k to pay. I still think this is recoverable but shouldn't have to come to this.
As I say I didn't want to have to post this but I have no option and others need to be aware.
Also as I said, to be fair to Urge they have not been able to see the engine but there's a very good reason for that! I wanted to be sure that I would be covered if I sent it back, as shipping costs alone to the US would be very high. That's the point where it descended and I got all sorts of reasons why this could be my fault, because of things like choking the intake, not fully data logging the engine etc. in The response should have been 'look this is really bad, let's get it sent back and we will sort you out' In hindsight I'm glad I didn't blindly send it or I would have been in for a massive bill a I would not have got a fair inspection.
It wasn't the response hence I lost all confidence and had to get it looked at here.
Actually feel Urge have backed the wrong horse with Endyn and are stuck in the middle, so I have a little sympathy but not a lot. Urge have been fine up until this. Below is an example of the customer service you can expect from Endyn. (This was prior to full strip when we thought it was oil starvation) I didn't get a reply.
They have $17k I have a destroyed engine and another $5k to pay. I still think this is recoverable but shouldn't have to come to this.
08-21-2014, 01:47 PM
#17
Member
Thread Starter
Larry, I've looked at your email again and feel the need to reply. I want to correct you on all your points as there are some unfair and inaccurate assumptions in there. This is not meant to be confrontational in tone so please don't take it that way.
1) Intake - I was abroad when the car was first mapped with the AEM V2 on there but it only had 5-6 dyno runs before Romain (my mapper) said it needed a bigger intake. Hence we stopped and after consultation with Patrick (he wasn't 100% sure on size to be used) I had a 3.5" system made up and we dyno'd it again. The car is not road legal so it was not even run between these 2 dyno session. I think this is a non-issue as far as the failure is concerned.
2) Fuel - This had to be remapped for my car, so im surprised you are saying the map is designed to fit all scenarios. It would be more unsafe to use a base map for a different fuel and different exhaust / intake system. It must be adjusted for my system (ie intake and exhaust) but also for Uk super unleaded fuel which is 99ron (different to US Ron which im sure you know) You mapped on a bench dyno which is quite a different setup. The base map needed very little adjustment to be fair, but there was no way I was going to install it without a check and adjustment. On my invoice it clearly says 'dyno break in and BASE TUNE'
A base tune to me fully implies that it's a base map which needs adjusting. Patrick was fully aware it was being remapped and at no point said this was an issue or that responsibility would be mine for any failure. I think you need to have a rethink on your stance there claiming this affects the warranty, or communicate this to Patrick. My mapper is the most experienced S2000 and Honda mapper in the UK. I don't cut corners.
3) Oil gauge - I keep hearing about this but here are the facts. You say that I'm unable to respond to warning lights - this is 100% untrue and not sure where that is coming from. I have an SPA digital oil pressure / oil temperature gauge in the car, and I had no alarms during qualifying, although it was wet and therefore I wouldn’t expect any issues due to not using full engine load or cornering force. During the race, as soon as the gauge lit up showing low pressure, I instantly backed off and coasted to the pits. It literally went from around 65 psi (I do glance at it on the straights) to 10 psi in a flash when I exited a corner. I'm not sure where the accusation that I don't know how to read an oil gauge is coming from but I need to make crystal clear on this - I could not have responded any quicker to this. As you know, all it takes is some brief starvation to damage the bearings during cornering and sometimes the damping in a gauge (and therefore alarm) means this isn't visible. Not saying that's the case here as I haven't checked on the gauge I have to see if this is an issue. Either way, if it was losing pressure in the corners it's a design issue with the sump. My view on the sump was because it looks very different to the J's racing one I had used, and really this is the only difference in the oil system between the engine I used to run. If I was told an Accusump was needed for running on semi slicks I would have definitely fitted one as money was not an object in keeping this safe.
4) Oil level - It was not over or underfilled. In fact even after the failure the car has a healthy oil level. I caught this failure very quickly and couldn't do any more in my view.
5) Detonation - the car was carefully mapped and det cans were used along with knock sensor feedback. I use very high quality fuel, and there is NO sign of det on the pistons. The bearings are totally destroyed and looks like starvation as I can't see any other reason.
Also you have not mentioned that there's a large crack in the Endyn inlet manifold. Given you have used the issue of the air intake to question my competence, would it not be fair to use the apparent poor weld repair to say the same of the engine build?? I wouldn't do that, I've not made a big issue about this, and I don't intend to as it is not related to the failure, but you are lucky this didn't draw in enough air to run lean (although not so likely on WOT) or worse it ingested weld metal. Maybe that would have been my fault too...
Whilst I have no doubt you build the best engines (I went for this as I knew of the Endyn name) I'm just really amazed that a failure this soon is being pointed my way. The engine has cost me a lot of money and lasted a handful of miles which isn't acceptable.
All I have said is I think the sump is the cause due to starvation, and this is based on observation of the sump itself, the debris in the sump, the fact the pistons and top end are all good, and that I've gone 2 years with a different sump design and not had an issue. It wasn't meant as a personal dig, just my view, and rightly I'm annoyed this has failed as inevitably going to cost me time and money. Hope you understand where I'm coming from there and can empathise with some frustration.
I hope that clears up all these points.
Mark
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/7/14, Staff.com <staff@.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Re: S2000 Urge GT engine
To: "Mark Bennett" <mark@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, 1 July, 2014, 14:21
Hello Mark,
I've been aware of your problems since early on when you choked the engine with an induction tube that was smaller than the butterfly in the throttle body. I understand that you have a degree in mechanical engineering, but all it takes in common sense to understand that you can't adequately feed a fire hose with a soda straw.
Your engine was the 97th F20C-F22C we've built. All of these engines, including those built for Honda Research and Development, have utilized the oil pan with our gated baffles. With the exception of one, where the driver improperly installed an aftermarket oil cooler, there have been NO lower-end failures dating as far back is 2003.Your failure was either the result of running the engine without the proper amount of oil in the system, or the bearings were hammered out by detonation. We spend a lot of time breaking-in and tuning engines we build here. Each is tuned for a specific application. All engines that are tuned for road racing are tuned conservatively, so there is a wide window (temp (wet & dry) and barometer) to make the engine safe for racing in changing environments. If our tune is altered, we are not responsible for any damage incurred. Engineers are typically anal when it comes to monitoring engine conditions, but now you say that you are merely a driver and that you are unable to respond to warning lights and gauge readings. It is ultimately the driver's responsibility to respond to any abnormal temps or pressures in a timely manner to prevent mechanical damage. If the engine isn't properly maintained, we are once again, not responsible for damage.
Larry Widmer
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Bennett" <mark@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:29 PM
To: <staff@.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: S2000 Urge GT engine
Hi Larry, sorry to bother you but I felt I needed to contact you. As you may know from Patrick, my Urge race engine has suffered a bottom end failure after less than 30 minutes use. I am concerned at the responses below and have zero assurance that if I send this from the UK back to US, it will be done fully under warranty. I just want to make sure you are in the picture and have all the facts from my side. I don't think it's right that this should have failed and I would have thought there would be some bending over backwards to help.
Any more info you require, please let me know.
Mark
1) Intake - I was abroad when the car was first mapped with the AEM V2 on there but it only had 5-6 dyno runs before Romain (my mapper) said it needed a bigger intake. Hence we stopped and after consultation with Patrick (he wasn't 100% sure on size to be used) I had a 3.5" system made up and we dyno'd it again. The car is not road legal so it was not even run between these 2 dyno session. I think this is a non-issue as far as the failure is concerned.
2) Fuel - This had to be remapped for my car, so im surprised you are saying the map is designed to fit all scenarios. It would be more unsafe to use a base map for a different fuel and different exhaust / intake system. It must be adjusted for my system (ie intake and exhaust) but also for Uk super unleaded fuel which is 99ron (different to US Ron which im sure you know) You mapped on a bench dyno which is quite a different setup. The base map needed very little adjustment to be fair, but there was no way I was going to install it without a check and adjustment. On my invoice it clearly says 'dyno break in and BASE TUNE'
A base tune to me fully implies that it's a base map which needs adjusting. Patrick was fully aware it was being remapped and at no point said this was an issue or that responsibility would be mine for any failure. I think you need to have a rethink on your stance there claiming this affects the warranty, or communicate this to Patrick. My mapper is the most experienced S2000 and Honda mapper in the UK. I don't cut corners.
3) Oil gauge - I keep hearing about this but here are the facts. You say that I'm unable to respond to warning lights - this is 100% untrue and not sure where that is coming from. I have an SPA digital oil pressure / oil temperature gauge in the car, and I had no alarms during qualifying, although it was wet and therefore I wouldn’t expect any issues due to not using full engine load or cornering force. During the race, as soon as the gauge lit up showing low pressure, I instantly backed off and coasted to the pits. It literally went from around 65 psi (I do glance at it on the straights) to 10 psi in a flash when I exited a corner. I'm not sure where the accusation that I don't know how to read an oil gauge is coming from but I need to make crystal clear on this - I could not have responded any quicker to this. As you know, all it takes is some brief starvation to damage the bearings during cornering and sometimes the damping in a gauge (and therefore alarm) means this isn't visible. Not saying that's the case here as I haven't checked on the gauge I have to see if this is an issue. Either way, if it was losing pressure in the corners it's a design issue with the sump. My view on the sump was because it looks very different to the J's racing one I had used, and really this is the only difference in the oil system between the engine I used to run. If I was told an Accusump was needed for running on semi slicks I would have definitely fitted one as money was not an object in keeping this safe.
4) Oil level - It was not over or underfilled. In fact even after the failure the car has a healthy oil level. I caught this failure very quickly and couldn't do any more in my view.
5) Detonation - the car was carefully mapped and det cans were used along with knock sensor feedback. I use very high quality fuel, and there is NO sign of det on the pistons. The bearings are totally destroyed and looks like starvation as I can't see any other reason.
Also you have not mentioned that there's a large crack in the Endyn inlet manifold. Given you have used the issue of the air intake to question my competence, would it not be fair to use the apparent poor weld repair to say the same of the engine build?? I wouldn't do that, I've not made a big issue about this, and I don't intend to as it is not related to the failure, but you are lucky this didn't draw in enough air to run lean (although not so likely on WOT) or worse it ingested weld metal. Maybe that would have been my fault too...
Whilst I have no doubt you build the best engines (I went for this as I knew of the Endyn name) I'm just really amazed that a failure this soon is being pointed my way. The engine has cost me a lot of money and lasted a handful of miles which isn't acceptable.
All I have said is I think the sump is the cause due to starvation, and this is based on observation of the sump itself, the debris in the sump, the fact the pistons and top end are all good, and that I've gone 2 years with a different sump design and not had an issue. It wasn't meant as a personal dig, just my view, and rightly I'm annoyed this has failed as inevitably going to cost me time and money. Hope you understand where I'm coming from there and can empathise with some frustration.
I hope that clears up all these points.
Mark
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/7/14, Staff.com <staff@.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Re: S2000 Urge GT engine
To: "Mark Bennett" <mark@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, 1 July, 2014, 14:21
Hello Mark,
I've been aware of your problems since early on when you choked the engine with an induction tube that was smaller than the butterfly in the throttle body. I understand that you have a degree in mechanical engineering, but all it takes in common sense to understand that you can't adequately feed a fire hose with a soda straw.
Your engine was the 97th F20C-F22C we've built. All of these engines, including those built for Honda Research and Development, have utilized the oil pan with our gated baffles. With the exception of one, where the driver improperly installed an aftermarket oil cooler, there have been NO lower-end failures dating as far back is 2003.Your failure was either the result of running the engine without the proper amount of oil in the system, or the bearings were hammered out by detonation. We spend a lot of time breaking-in and tuning engines we build here. Each is tuned for a specific application. All engines that are tuned for road racing are tuned conservatively, so there is a wide window (temp (wet & dry) and barometer) to make the engine safe for racing in changing environments. If our tune is altered, we are not responsible for any damage incurred. Engineers are typically anal when it comes to monitoring engine conditions, but now you say that you are merely a driver and that you are unable to respond to warning lights and gauge readings. It is ultimately the driver's responsibility to respond to any abnormal temps or pressures in a timely manner to prevent mechanical damage. If the engine isn't properly maintained, we are once again, not responsible for damage.
Larry Widmer
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Bennett" <mark@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:29 PM
To: <staff@.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: S2000 Urge GT engine
Hi Larry, sorry to bother you but I felt I needed to contact you. As you may know from Patrick, my Urge race engine has suffered a bottom end failure after less than 30 minutes use. I am concerned at the responses below and have zero assurance that if I send this from the UK back to US, it will be done fully under warranty. I just want to make sure you are in the picture and have all the facts from my side. I don't think it's right that this should have failed and I would have thought there would be some bending over backwards to help.
Any more info you require, please let me know.
Mark
08-21-2014, 02:10 PM
#18
Former Moderator
I don't see any Mallory slugs pressed in the counterweights to rebalance after the crankshaft was lightened. Do you have a local machine shop who can check the balance? They will need piston and rod weights, a flywheel and the crank pulley.
08-21-2014, 02:42 PM
#19
Hello Mark,
I've been aware of your problems since early on when you choked the engine with an induction tube that was smaller than the butterfly in the throttle body. I understand that you have a degree in mechanical engineering, but all it takes in common sense to understand that you can't adequately feed a fire hose with a soda straw.
Your engine was the 97th F20C-F22C we've built. All of these engines, including those built for Honda Research and Development, have utilized the oil pan with our gated baffles. With the exception of one, where the driver improperly installed an aftermarket oil cooler, there have been NO lower-end failures dating as far back is 2003.Your failure was either the result of running the engine without the proper amount of oil in the system, or the bearings were hammered out by detonation. We spend a lot of time breaking-in and tuning engines we build here. Each is tuned for a specific application. All engines that are tuned for road racing are tuned conservatively, so there is a wide window (temp (wet & dry) and barometer) to make the engine safe for racing in changing environments. If our tune is altered, we are not responsible for any damage incurred. Engineers are typically anal when it comes to monitoring engine conditions, but now you say that you are merely a driver and that you are unable to respond to warning lights and gauge readings. It is ultimately the driver's responsibility to respond to any abnormal temps or pressures in a timely manner to prevent mechanical damage. If the engine isn't properly maintained, we are once again, not responsible for damage.
Larry Widmer
I've been aware of your problems since early on when you choked the engine with an induction tube that was smaller than the butterfly in the throttle body. I understand that you have a degree in mechanical engineering, but all it takes in common sense to understand that you can't adequately feed a fire hose with a soda straw.
Your engine was the 97th F20C-F22C we've built. All of these engines, including those built for Honda Research and Development, have utilized the oil pan with our gated baffles. With the exception of one, where the driver improperly installed an aftermarket oil cooler, there have been NO lower-end failures dating as far back is 2003.Your failure was either the result of running the engine without the proper amount of oil in the system, or the bearings were hammered out by detonation. We spend a lot of time breaking-in and tuning engines we build here. Each is tuned for a specific application. All engines that are tuned for road racing are tuned conservatively, so there is a wide window (temp (wet & dry) and barometer) to make the engine safe for racing in changing environments. If our tune is altered, we are not responsible for any damage incurred. Engineers are typically anal when it comes to monitoring engine conditions, but now you say that you are merely a driver and that you are unable to respond to warning lights and gauge readings. It is ultimately the driver's responsibility to respond to any abnormal temps or pressures in a timely manner to prevent mechanical damage. If the engine isn't properly maintained, we are once again, not responsible for damage.
Larry Widmer