Alignment Problems
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 473
Likes: 3
From: Charlottesville
Given that I have maxed out my caster at just under 4* with -1.3* camber, does anyone have a feel for how much caster I could achieve by going back to -0.5* camber. I'm wondering if it is even possible to get back to stock specs.
If I can get back to stock, even with something slightly bent, then I don't think I've got much of a case with Honda. On the other hand, if it is not possible to achieve the stock specifications, and I purchased the car that way, then I think I have a very legitimate case for a warranty repair.
If I can get back to stock, even with something slightly bent, then I don't think I've got much of a case with Honda. On the other hand, if it is not possible to achieve the stock specifications, and I purchased the car that way, then I think I have a very legitimate case for a warranty repair.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,485
Likes: 21
I think that with more than -1 degree of camber you'll never get a full 6+ degrees of caster on the drivers side.
I just had an alignment done at a honda dealership where my friend is a very competent tech. When we had front camber at less than -1 degree we could get caster to about 5.9. When we increased camber to -1.3 the max decreased to 5.5. You can turn the eccentric all the way around but at some point past the 5.5 it started reducing again.
I think the way the stock suspension geometry is designed the more - camber you run the less adjustment you have in caster. The weird thing is on the passenger side we could get -1.3 and the reccomended 6.45. I know for SURE that the car has never been in a wreck or had anything tweaked by hitting a curb etc.
Teamking, I think with -1.3 you should be able to get 5.5 caster max on the drivers side. I was able to do so with a stock suspension (except Muz whiteline front sway bar) on my 00 AP1.
Here are my specs:
Front
-1.3 camber left and right
0 toe
5.5 caster left, 5.7 caster right (.2 split to account for road crowning right, car is mostly daily driven)
Rear
-2.0 camber left and right
.25 toe in each side (.50 total)
The car feels like it could use a little more tire. Right now it has 205/225 kumho 712's. Would it be advisable to move the 225 rear to the front and getting a pair of 245 rears? I have the thicker Muz front sway bar needed to do so but I heard running 225 fronts on the narrow 6.5" stock AP1 wheels will cause the tire to bulge in the middle and wear too quickly down the middle.
I just had an alignment done at a honda dealership where my friend is a very competent tech. When we had front camber at less than -1 degree we could get caster to about 5.9. When we increased camber to -1.3 the max decreased to 5.5. You can turn the eccentric all the way around but at some point past the 5.5 it started reducing again.
I think the way the stock suspension geometry is designed the more - camber you run the less adjustment you have in caster. The weird thing is on the passenger side we could get -1.3 and the reccomended 6.45. I know for SURE that the car has never been in a wreck or had anything tweaked by hitting a curb etc.
Teamking, I think with -1.3 you should be able to get 5.5 caster max on the drivers side. I was able to do so with a stock suspension (except Muz whiteline front sway bar) on my 00 AP1.
Here are my specs:
Front
-1.3 camber left and right
0 toe
5.5 caster left, 5.7 caster right (.2 split to account for road crowning right, car is mostly daily driven)
Rear
-2.0 camber left and right
.25 toe in each side (.50 total)
The car feels like it could use a little more tire. Right now it has 205/225 kumho 712's. Would it be advisable to move the 225 rear to the front and getting a pair of 245 rears? I have the thicker Muz front sway bar needed to do so but I heard running 225 fronts on the narrow 6.5" stock AP1 wheels will cause the tire to bulge in the middle and wear too quickly down the middle.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,064
Likes: 366
From: Redondo Beach
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower,Feb 15 2006, 12:06 AM
I think that with more than -1 degree of camber you'll never get a full 6+ degrees of caster on the drivers side.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,337
Likes: 1
From: Gods Speed #57 Lemons #77
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower,Feb 15 2006, 03:06 AM
I think that with more than -1 degree of camber you'll never get a full 6+ degrees of caster on the drivers side.
I just had an alignment done at a honda dealership where my friend is a very competent tech. When we had front camber at less than -1 degree we could get caster to about 5.9. When we increased camber to -1.3 the max decreased to 5.5. You can turn the eccentric all the way around but at some point past the 5.5 it started reducing again.
I think the way the stock suspension geometry is designed the more - camber you run the less adjustment you have in caster. The weird thing is on the passenger side we could get -1.3 and the reccomended 6.45. I know for SURE that the car has never been in a wreck or had anything tweaked by hitting a curb etc.
Teamking, I think with -1.3 you should be able to get 5.5 caster max on the drivers side. I was able to do so with a stock suspension (except Muz whiteline front sway bar) on my 00 AP1.
Here are my specs:
Front
-1.3 camber left and right
0 toe
5.5 caster left, 5.7 caster right (.2 split to account for road crowning right, car is mostly daily driven)
Rear
-2.0 camber left and right
.25 toe in each side (.50 total)
The car feels like it could use a little more tire. Right now it has 205/225 kumho 712's. Would it be advisable to move the 225 rear to the front and getting a pair of 245 rears? I have the thicker Muz front sway bar needed to do so but I heard running 225 fronts on the narrow 6.5" stock AP1 wheels will cause the tire to bulge in the middle and wear too quickly down the middle.
I just had an alignment done at a honda dealership where my friend is a very competent tech. When we had front camber at less than -1 degree we could get caster to about 5.9. When we increased camber to -1.3 the max decreased to 5.5. You can turn the eccentric all the way around but at some point past the 5.5 it started reducing again.
I think the way the stock suspension geometry is designed the more - camber you run the less adjustment you have in caster. The weird thing is on the passenger side we could get -1.3 and the reccomended 6.45. I know for SURE that the car has never been in a wreck or had anything tweaked by hitting a curb etc.
Teamking, I think with -1.3 you should be able to get 5.5 caster max on the drivers side. I was able to do so with a stock suspension (except Muz whiteline front sway bar) on my 00 AP1.
Here are my specs:
Front
-1.3 camber left and right
0 toe
5.5 caster left, 5.7 caster right (.2 split to account for road crowning right, car is mostly daily driven)
Rear
-2.0 camber left and right
.25 toe in each side (.50 total)
The car feels like it could use a little more tire. Right now it has 205/225 kumho 712's. Would it be advisable to move the 225 rear to the front and getting a pair of 245 rears? I have the thicker Muz front sway bar needed to do so but I heard running 225 fronts on the narrow 6.5" stock AP1 wheels will cause the tire to bulge in the middle and wear too quickly down the middle.
You should put the 225s on the front and get some 245 for the rear, it's a big improvement. Wear is usually pretty decent, just don't overinflate the fronts.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,485
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by TubeDriver,Feb 15 2006, 11:23 AM
I have -1.5 camber front with 6* caster. Car is stock with Comptech FSB. I did the initial alignment with about 600 miles on the odometer (right after my break-in drive).
You should put the 225s on the front and get some 245 for the rear, it's a big improvement. Wear is usually pretty decent, just don't overinflate the fronts.
You should put the 225s on the front and get some 245 for the rear, it's a big improvement. Wear is usually pretty decent, just don't overinflate the fronts.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,337
Likes: 1
From: Gods Speed #57 Lemons #77
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower,Feb 15 2006, 02:38 PM
What psi would you reccomend for the 225/245 combo? Is the Muz whiteline FSB large enough to dial out any extra oversteer with this setup?
The front bar will probably be enough since you will not have to worry about rear wheel lift with those tires. If you find that you still have too much oversteer with this setup, you could bump up front tire pressures to dial in a little more understeer.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,491
Likes: 1
From: Rochester, NY
Depends on the tires. Hoosiers run higher than Kumhos.
The Muz bar isn't nearly enough to handle the lack of stagger in a truly competitive scenario although with "creative" driving styles you may be able to do some good things with it. Mike Solomon from the New England region ran his with only a Mugen front bar and, while he didn't win Nationals, did pretty good...
The Muz bar isn't nearly enough to handle the lack of stagger in a truly competitive scenario although with "creative" driving styles you may be able to do some good things with it. Mike Solomon from the New England region ran his with only a Mugen front bar and, while he didn't win Nationals, did pretty good...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,337
Likes: 1
From: Gods Speed #57 Lemons #77
Originally Posted by jguerdat,Feb 16 2006, 06:52 AM
Depends on the tires. Hoosiers run higher than Kumhos.
The Muz bar isn't nearly enough to handle the lack of stagger in a truly competitive scenario although with "creative" driving styles you may be able to do some good things with it. Mike Solomon from the New England region ran his with only a Mugen front bar and, while he didn't win Nationals, did pretty good...
The Muz bar isn't nearly enough to handle the lack of stagger in a truly competitive scenario although with "creative" driving styles you may be able to do some good things with it. Mike Solomon from the New England region ran his with only a Mugen front bar and, while he didn't win Nationals, did pretty good...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,485
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by TubeDriver,Feb 16 2006, 08:50 AM
I think he said he is on Kuhmo 712s. There is not a chance of wheel lift with those tires, not nearly enough stick. So the bar might be enough (assuming he does not overcook corner entry speeds).