ndogg

There is a cusco bar on scca forums that just popped up.

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/aft/445214

Turboed

Hmm, interesting. FYI - The Cusco website lists it as 172% stock, which puts it in the 660 in/lb range.

sirbunz

Keep in mind, the square setups were a result of limited tire options on the AP1s OEM 16 wheels and to compensate for the understeer created by the huge front bars which were used to correct the sloppiness of the soft front springs and inside rear wheel lift which limited corner exit. At the time, most of us had not played with high dollar shocks (outside OTS Koni Sports which proved no advantage) to fix the issue and went the swaybar, alignment, tires route first. I was not convinced that proper shocks were necessary until I drove Jadrice's S2000 which had Motons and even more open/loose setup than mine. I was amazed how early i could power out of a turn without the need for a huge swaybar. Then he went crazy and made his car a pushing nightmare while I won a National championship! LOL!

As for the CR I previously mentioned, considering the small front wheels and the mounting characteristics of the modern street tires, the car owner saw no point to go with a bigger tire than the 225 on a 7" wheel. The Rivals pinch really bad when mounting on a smaller wheel and you loose a ton of contact patch and sharpness. Though most staggered S2000s seem to have understeer when trail braking and when corner exiting early, I had no issue hitting a slip angle with the throttle and felt this setup was very neutral. (basic stock class setup, alignment, Gendron Monster Bar, Motons)

Using the conventional knowledge we gained throughout the years of stock class S2000s, when we put high grip front tires on the S2000, initial turn-in overpowered the rear big time. The first generation of National S2000 drivers added stiffer front sway bars to take away the front of grip until they found a happy balance. Good shocks were not yet available and unproven until the success of Saini. Lots of low speed rebound helped rear stability without killing front grip. Opening up the alignments slightly perfects the equation and everything else is either going to hurt the balance or compliment it. We fine tuned these basic mods until we completely dominated the stock class with the S2000. The addition of the CR also helped. Jumping over to street tires and the bolt-ons at the introduction of STR, the S2000s struggled to put down power and lost the ability to keep the rear stable in transitions. When I swapped back and forth from A6s to RS3s on the same car (Nationally prepped/champion 08 CR) at local events, the margins were much less than comparing B-Stock to STR. After 2 seasons in STR and trying every know combinations of parts, tires, settings. etc, I felt the S2000 had to lack something basic. I remembered the test with my B-Stock car and began to question all the familiar/popular STR tuning. I concluded we were fighting the OEM suspension geometry instead of complimenting it. There were many different setups that was assumed to work, but I didn't like any of them until I went back to stock heights, bars and balances matched to the higher spring rates. I feel this car has the necessary turn in and only needs some rear stability in stock for without killing your front grip. The AP1s and early AP2s will need more front bar and more aggressive shock valving than the later AP2s and CR. All you need to worry about after that is driving. The different tires have slightly different requirements, but I found them less obvious on my STR AP1 once the suspension was dialed in right. I loved the RS3s on my B-Stock CR, hated them on my STR CR and loved them again on my AP1 and BSP car which had dialed in suspensions.

All of this is my .02 and lots of other great drivers may disagree. Take it for what it's worth...

-Marc

mLeach

So you're saying that the Geoff Walker setup is where it's at?

sirbunz

Geoff is a little closer to my setup, but that is just our preference. Others like the setups that I hated...

-Marc

josh7owens

I will say the B-street CR I drove on and off over the last two years was 10 times easier to drive then my stiffly sprung STR car. With that said I've since gone softer on my STR car and raised it back up to 13-13.25" or so. I haven't tested it on a course since the spring change and corner balance but on the street it feels easier to drive. Maybe my aggressiveness doesn't favor a stiff spring car.

The B-street car was so easy to drive that I jumped in it after a 1.5 year hiatus, put down fastest PAX locally for the day on my first run and then ran 5 more runs back to back within a .2 margin of my first run. Now if inly my STR car was that easy!

I had similar experience that Marc posted above at the Match tour in Blytheville last year. I got a lot of shit for saying it but I would of trophied in the B-Street car in STR that event. I also was in the top 16 shoot out for the event but didn't race because I had to leave and head home. Wasn't going to wait around all day to run it. Funny I also got shit for not running.

I'm a much faster B-Street driver then I am a STR driver. The car is just easier to drive at the limit. Every time I've been on concrete my STR car has felt like shit and not confidence inspiring to be able to drive at that national level limit. I've trophied a few times but never won. Locally on asphalt the car is on point! I just need more concrete seat time to get used to the speed, grip, and balance the car. The B-Street car felt great on both surfaces and allowed me to win a tour in. Added that I was fast enough in that car to trophy I the STR class.

Im a slightly above average driver at best, I'm not fast so I can't really comment but slammed, stiff springs, stuff bars isn't producing a car much faster then a B-Street car. My car is the same height as Geoffs, my bars are obviously stiffer, springs are about the same (I think, he's got his setup locked up like a millitary secret") still unsure if Walker has a diff or not?!?! If so that would explain why the soft bars work so well.

solos2k

I bought my car in a ricer/STR light trim. It had buddyclub N+ coilovers, a cai, dc header that made no power and AP2 wheels. The coilovers were corner balanced when installed. I think going back to stock suspension and a big bar the car will be faster than it was last year even giving up the wheel width. I am excited for this season. The buddyclubs were good in steady state corners and thats about it. I don't think dampeners were really keeping up with the spring rate, especially at Grissom Air Force Base's concrete. I was still able to Pax right at top 10 locally so I think I should be doing quite a bit better on the index.

oinojo

It's much easier for people to mess up a perfectly good car with modifications. Each car is different and should be tuned accordingly and not by what other people are doing or have success with. my.02

iamxpl

^^ also each driver preference is different. do you think its worth it to get a good bar right away with adjust-ability?

RyanDavies

No, it's a lot better when people ask you what to do and copy it verbatim. Even better if they ask each of us (since our cars are EXACTLY the same!!!!! ) what to do and randomly pick from each .