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wear marks on the wheel well liners is not unusual, most lowered street s2000's have that, as a dedicated track car I would expect the liners to be trimmed or completely removed, so wear marks aren't unusual to see.
The Ass2000 was in rough shape when it was rescued by the Speed Academy guys, that's why they bought my subframe and steering spare parts as it was sitting in mud or some crappy location that caused the underside to rust away. They did a pretty good job getting it back to good condition.
Unless something is wonky with the wheels, you don't need hubcentric rings; the lug nuts should center the wheel just fine. Stock wheels are different widths and offsets, but you can run a square setup without much issue. The most common 17x9s that don't require much modification are +63, +62, and +60 offsets and you can run 255s with just aggressive camber and a tab roll up front (some will argue against the roll, but it'll ensure that you don't grab a fender).
The car came with Gram Lights 57xtreme in 17x9 +40. Hub seems to be 73mm. It's strange to me that a car like this would have different sized hubs, then again, i've been used to the E46 M3 for so long i guess i got spoiled :P. Picked up some new ones from TF. Just not a fan running without them. I'll have to look at some other wheels though, second set at least, to cover the Rain vs Dry setup. Really like the value for money of the NT03s, so considering those, albeit they only come in 17x9.5 in 114.3x5 it seems.
Originally Posted by Chuck S
If I remember right the car was setup to run Toronto Motorsports Park, a short (3km/1.8mile) track that looks like it normally runs clockwise. Suspension was probably optimized for it.
I also remember this car was originally the ASS2000 due to it's horrible condition.
-- Chuck
Definitely set up for TMP. Pretty polar-opposite to Road Atlanta. That said, the car still managed a REALLY damn good time all things considered. If the bottoming out in 1 and 3 can be gotten under control, and possibly slightly longer final drive (AP2s have slightly longer final drives, right?) to avoid hitting the limiter in the Esses and the back straight, it could dip into the 1:39s with 340TW Street Tires for sure.
It was most definitely ass, haha. Neglected, rusted and crashed (but repaired). They've touched just about every part on this car though, so it's not bad. The underside is surprisingly clean and rust-free. There are definitely some spots of rust around still, such as the rear bumper and front bumper as well as a few small spots here and there, which i'll get under control.
Originally Posted by spaded.racer
That wear on the fenders/fender liner is going to happen no matter what suspension/spring you run pretty much. Just keep and eye on it and touch it up with paint occasionally to prevent rust issues.
Evasive sells an "Evasive specific" version of the Eibach R2. Maybe reach out to them and see if they'll share safe spring rates and go from there.
Did you check ride height? I'm curious where it was at.
Thanks for that heads-up regarding touching the liner. Guess the one thing i could do is add a bigger bump-stop, but meh. Thanks for the Evasive idea. I'll look into that. Hopefully they have some positive news on that front, hah!
Regarding height, i haven't really checked it with a tape yet. That said, just from eyeballing it, it actually doesn't appear to be sitting that low. I'm fairly confident that my M3 without a splitter and sideskirts, is lower than this car. I'll see about digging up some pictures and getting measurements though!
Originally Posted by Jub
I don't have direct experience with aftermarket ball-joints on my S2k. However, on my previous Integra, I ran aftermarket upper control arms with aftermarket ball joints which had crappy rubber parts (boots, bushings, etc.). The ball joints, being the same size as oem, took OEM dust boots which were of much higher quality. Honda also sells the OEM boots separately and would be worth trying. They don't cost that much and I'd bet will fit right up. Most rubber components on aftermarket suspension pieces seem to be pretty sub-par. I am partial to Hard-Race, as I believe they put more effort into getting quality rubber based on something I read years ago and limited personal experience. I ran their components on my Integra for a year or so before selling the car, so not a tremendous amount of time.
Seems most track guys also wrap them in gold, heat deflecting material to prevent failures due to heat. I think Rob Rinette (spelling?) wrote a piece on it. Seems the rubber is sensitive the heat generated by tracking, especially with the stock brake setup getting very hot.
TLDR; Try OEM rubber dust boots, they'll probably fit. Look into wrapping them for heat.
Great call on the boots. Going to check into that. At least if all else fails, i can still buy the Buddy Club ones. The heat-shielding is definitely going to happen! I'm surprised that the rears are cracking, yet the fronts are fairly ok.
Originally Posted by zeroptzero
wear marks on the wheel well liners is not unusual, most lowered street s2000's have that, as a dedicated track car I would expect the liners to be trimmed or completely removed, so wear marks aren't unusual to see.
The Ass2000 was in rough shape when it was rescued by the Speed Academy guys, that's why they bought my subframe and steering spare parts as it was sitting in mud or some crappy location that caused the underside to rust away. They did a pretty good job getting it back to good condition.
Thanks for the heads up. Going to see about the best way to trim the liners. Ordered some new ones off Amazon since the stockers are just shredded up front. It does appear that, at least with these fenders, removing the rear portion will be another Parachute situation, like the rear bumpers.
Yeah, it was REALLY bad. Aside from a few spots, it's actually really hard to tell that it was in such shitty condition. Absolutely everything was touched and they used anti-seize on just about all the bolts, so i'm SUPER happy about that, haha. Just know that your subframe continues to live on and provide much fun
Today, pictures from the Road Atlanta event came in the mail (USB stick :P ). Couple really nice shots, and really interesting as well to see the dynamics of the car.
Camber at turn-in at 1 seems good. Inside tires seems to lift more than on my M3, interestingly enough.
Left side loaded up a bit, looks not too bad.
Landing in 3 makes the car look ridiculous, though, haha. This pic was during a more "mechanically friendly" lap, where i didn't take the inside Gator. Car still looks like it came down pretty hard. Surprising amount of tire flex too. Guess the Contis are still pretty soft all things considered :P
Turning in to 5, right side loaded. Doesn't look bad. Inside a bit high, but it's going uphill as well so there's that.
2020 was definitely a slower year overall, but still managed to get on track a few times and make some changes to the car to make it more stout.
First big change was the addition of Girodisc front rotors and Urge Design rear rotors to hopefully alleviate the problem of cracking rotors.
So far, they have been holding up well. After a hand-full of events, the Girodisc fronts are starting to show some minor heat-checking, however i'd imagine at least one entire season is doable on these rotors. Very happy with them!
On the other hand, i've gone through quite a few front calipers now... Neither Centric nor Callahan calipers seem to hold up to track use. Dust boots burn up almost immediately and caliper seals start weeping after one event...
Subsequently, i used my old junkyard OEM calipers, which are perfectly fine. After pulling apart the calipers, i'm not surprised that the seals start weeping. Both pistons looked like this.
To add a little bit more separation and heat management, i also picked up some titanium backing plates. They seem to be doing a rather great job so far, can recommend .
Other modifications include a second set of wheels and tires. This time, i went with RPF1s and Nankang AR1 tires.
The AR1s are a really good step from street tires to more track tires. Super consistent and don't try to kill you if you overdrive them. The main reason for the switch was to work on my consistency. Added benefit was that i also managed a new PB at Road Atlanta :P
Got fed up with the sound of the Berk exhaust and how ricey it started to sound, so i picked up a HKS Hi Power to replace it with
Sound is a lot better and fit and finish is pretty darn nice. Definitely heavier than the Berk though. I did blow out the gasket due to bolts that loosened, so a track-fix had to be done!
Next up, i headed out to Alabama for my first time at Barber Motorsports Park. Fun track!
At Barber, i finally started running into the dreaded valve cover problem. Due to the nature of Turn 1 and 2, the engine would push oil out of the PCV and into the catch can. Surprisingly, it pushed it out of the catch can as well, spilling everywhere... A rag quickly fixed that problem though, hah.
Next up, 4 new wheel bearings as well as Karcepts Hubs and some ARP extended studs are getting prepared as we speak!
Also picked up some CSG pads to test, since ST43 square and even ST47 front and ST43 rear are upsetting the car a bit too much still. After burning through a set of DTC70s in the front, i'm also hoping to find something that lasts a bit longer, lol. These are definitely the most expensive pads i've bought so far, closely followed by PFCs for the M3, so we'll see how they hold up.
Also, the car is undergoing some other changes, to make it legal for Gridlifes new ClubTR rules (Different splitter, primarily). Signed up for 4 events with them this year, so we'll see how that goes. Seems like a lot of fast guys are joining that class though, hah.
I know you had a bad experience with your M3 - i can't speak for that chassis or the specific kit that you bought.
The S2k absolutely benefits from a BBK. You don't even need to go over the top and get super pricey AP-racing, PFC, or a C43 based kit. The standard ST40 kit from stoptech or the SakeBomb wilwood kit will fix all of your braking problems and consumables wear.
There's no fix around the stock calipers, pad shape, and rotors - they're tiny and have very poor thermal capacity. That said, it seems like you've locked yourself into running only OEM calipers by getting RPF-1s (didn't leave yourself the option for a BBK in the future). You're definitely booking it, and I only expect your braking problems to get worse as you get faster and run stickier compound tires.
FWIW, i got about 40-50 track days out of my ST40 328x28mm rotor rings before having to replace them. I went through two sets of pads, which still had about a quarter of thickness left when i swapped them out.
My experience with the OEM calipers, rotors, and pad shape was about 3-4 track days before cracking and pads to the backing plate. That was with ducting. I didn't bother with 2-piece rotors on the oem calipers or titanium shim plates. I also burned out my dust boots, but didn't have a problem with seals and weeping fluid.
You should be running a BBK yesterday.. Seen too many guys burn through pads/calipers/rotors too quickly it's just not worth the risk/headache. The OEM brakes are just not upto the task of stickier tires and a square setup. If you run the oem staggered setup with some 200TW tires that's the limit I'd say of what's "safe" once you really start pushing the car. I think some DTC60's up front lasted me ~5-6 days with 225 z2's up front.
Agreed on the BBK topic. You've got great pace at RA as-is.. low 1:40's with stock calipers is moving but heat management is their downfall. My ST40 BBK paid for itself after a year and a half when compared to my consumable cost of running OEM Calipers & NAPA Rotors w/ upgraded Pads.
Edit - Are you on SPC ball joints? If so get those off off off asap for your own safety.. 100TW an SPC's don't mix
Last edited by Vipertag313; 02-22-2021 at 03:13 PM.
Agreed on the BBK topic. You've got great pace at RA as-is.. low 1:40's with stock calipers is moving but heat management is their downfall. My ST40 BBK paid for itself after a year and a half when compared to my consumable cost of running OEM Calipers & NAPA Rotors w/ upgraded Pads.
Edit - Are you on SPC ball joints? If so get those off off off asap for your own safety.. 100TW an SPC's don't mix
I've had SPCs for 3 years now, driving hard with 100TW on the track (200 for autocross). They're paint marked to check for slippage and have never moved a hair. What problems have you had? Did you torque them to 120ft-lb as recommended?
PS: Agree with all that a BBK is mandatory at that level.
I've had SPCs for 3 years now, driving hard with 100TW on the track (200 for autocross). They're paint marked to check for slippage and have never moved a hair. What problems have you had? Did you torque them to 120ft-lb as recommended?
PS: Agree with all that a BBK is mandatory at that level.
a bunch of people have had control arm failures with SPC’s
12-31-2019, 02:42 PM
