Brakes for slow-intermediate HPDE track day
09-01-2009, 04:45 PM
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Brakes for slow-intermediate HPDE track day
Hey all. Sorry about posting up such a lame topic on such an intense forum, but I need a second opinion.
I'm kind of tight on money but I wanna make it out to an HPDE track event at Streets of Willow (counter-clockwise). Would it be alright for a slow-intermediate driver to use stock DOT3 brake fluid and my quiet, low-temp street pads for five 25-minute runs? Would my brakes fail or for the most part be rendered untrackworthy after a few laps?
I have enough money to afford brake fluid and the labor necessary to change it out. I may even have enough to pick up an aggressive set of Hawk front brake pads. But my rears would have to remain OEM. My question is, can I do without these? Streets of Willow is a technical course so I'm not sure if I need the high-temp pads and fluid for high-speed braking. Then again, I will be braking very often.
Thanks for all of your helpful advice! Again, I apologize for asking for a second opinion. I just can't decide.
I'm kind of tight on money but I wanna make it out to an HPDE track event at Streets of Willow (counter-clockwise). Would it be alright for a slow-intermediate driver to use stock DOT3 brake fluid and my quiet, low-temp street pads for five 25-minute runs? Would my brakes fail or for the most part be rendered untrackworthy after a few laps?
I have enough money to afford brake fluid and the labor necessary to change it out. I may even have enough to pick up an aggressive set of Hawk front brake pads. But my rears would have to remain OEM. My question is, can I do without these? Streets of Willow is a technical course so I'm not sure if I need the high-temp pads and fluid for high-speed braking. Then again, I will be braking very often.
Thanks for all of your helpful advice! Again, I apologize for asking for a second opinion. I just can't decide.
09-01-2009, 05:05 PM
#2
I'm no expert but I will try to help. Any track day, no matter how slow you think you are, you will drive way more aggressive than you do any other time. You don't have to be going fast for thing to fail. Therefore, a brake fluid change will be a good idea. You don't mention how old your current fluid is as well as the age. I don't know that track so maybe a local will chime in to say how hard it will be on the pads. You should atleast check them to verify you have over 50% pad and that's pushing it. Remember you need to have brakes to drive home too. Stock pads will stop you fine as long as your fluid is good and fresh. Don' twait til the last minute to change these either, you may run into a problem.
My best advice is to check with who is putting on the event as they should have a list of things you should do, bring and be ready for. Also, check the FAQ area at the top of this section. It will be a blast but only if you are prepared!
My best advice is to check with who is putting on the event as they should have a list of things you should do, bring and be ready for. Also, check the FAQ area at the top of this section. It will be a blast but only if you are prepared!
09-01-2009, 05:15 PM
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no. SOW CCW is hard on brake. you come off the last turn, come down hill at full throttle on 5th gear all the way till skidpad, downshift to 2nd. you also downshift from 5th to 2nd (or 3rd) at the back straight entering the bowl. in comparison, CW is easier on brakes.
if brake fluid is new, it would probably be ok for slow intermediate. but it costs very little to upgrade to good fluid, ATE is only $15 a bottle, enough for complete bleed. as for pads, I would get a minimum of Carbotech AX6, Axxis Ultimate or Hawk HPS. note I said minimum. if you graduate to intermediate driver+, you will need even better pads.
you should also change out the rear. s2k are as hard on rear as the fronts.
if brake fluid is new, it would probably be ok for slow intermediate. but it costs very little to upgrade to good fluid, ATE is only $15 a bottle, enough for complete bleed. as for pads, I would get a minimum of Carbotech AX6, Axxis Ultimate or Hawk HPS. note I said minimum. if you graduate to intermediate driver+, you will need even better pads.
you should also change out the rear. s2k are as hard on rear as the fronts.
09-01-2009, 05:33 PM
#4
Hawk HPS suck, BAD. Worse than stock on the street, WAY worse than stock (totally unusable) at the track. In my one-time experience with them.
MINIMUM, flush brakes with fresh DOT4 (off-the-shelf OK).
Stock pads *can* work at the track (I've had mixed results), but as mentioned above, if they're ~50% worn or more, forget 'em. (pads should be noticeably thicker than the backing plates)
HP+ pads are pretty decent for the money.
Carbotech XP8's are much better and still somewhat streetable for a bit more $$$.
MINIMUM, flush brakes with fresh DOT4 (off-the-shelf OK).
Stock pads *can* work at the track (I've had mixed results), but as mentioned above, if they're ~50% worn or more, forget 'em. (pads should be noticeably thicker than the backing plates)
HP+ pads are pretty decent for the money.
Carbotech XP8's are much better and still somewhat streetable for a bit more $$$.
09-01-2009, 05:54 PM
#6
Two brake zones from 5th gear to 2nd and 3rd, I agree, nothing less than new pads. That's why I was hesitant, never seen the track. You will be buying brake pads soon after anyway so why not use new at the track and change back to your current pads after the event.
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09-01-2009, 06:23 PM
#8
If your going to ATE, use the gold. You'll thank my when you eventually try to flush all of the color out of the system if you upgrade to another brake fluid.
If its your first event Hawk HPS will probably be ok but if I were you I'd get something else. They will fade badly with an average driver in a stock S2000. IF your slightly better than average then they will not even last the day and will hold you up quite a bit.
If its your first event Hawk HPS will probably be ok but if I were you I'd get something else. They will fade badly with an average driver in a stock S2000. IF your slightly better than average then they will not even last the day and will hold you up quite a bit.
09-01-2009, 07:46 PM
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Two things here, just to add another perspective....if you want.
1. If this is really a deal breaker for you, you can always just breathe the straights, minimize your use of the brakes, and concentrate on the technical aspects of the course. Tell yourself you're racing 40 years ago when brakes were the weak point of a race car and you have to nurse them the whole way to bring the car home.
2. I'm not sure there's consensus on bewilliam's comments on the S2k's being as hard on rears as fronts. I still myself go through front pads 4x faster than rears, granted they're usually full race pads all the way round (XP1/XP2, HT-10's , etc.).
1. If this is really a deal breaker for you, you can always just breathe the straights, minimize your use of the brakes, and concentrate on the technical aspects of the course. Tell yourself you're racing 40 years ago when brakes were the weak point of a race car and you have to nurse them the whole way to bring the car home.
2. I'm not sure there's consensus on bewilliam's comments on the S2k's being as hard on rears as fronts. I still myself go through front pads 4x faster than rears, granted they're usually full race pads all the way round (XP1/XP2, HT-10's , etc.).
09-01-2009, 08:10 PM
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within 15 hours I bought my 05 s2k, I was on track with my s2k, at Street of Willow. I destroyed stock front and rear pads in 2 sessions. someone had Hawk HPS to sell me. I destroyed those by the end of the weekend. Yes I am very hard on the brakes, it is just my driving style as I trail brake a lot. but that track configuration is hard on brakes.
as for rear brakes, quite a few have also reported the same thing. I am not sure the reason. it doesn't make sense, may be front and rear OEM is of different compound ?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=721385
in op's post, it says he is currently running some "low noise" pads, my guess is those would be worse than OEM.
I would recommend playing it safe, run a decent pads front and rear. We might be wrong, that you may run the whole weekend w/o an issue on stock pads/fluid (I know of a few faster drivers that are very easy on brakes). but why take that chance. if you destroyed the pads, you go home early, you still have to buy new pads, and also new rotors (as you are metal to metal). you also wasted a whole fun day, gas to drive to and back.
as for rear brakes, quite a few have also reported the same thing. I am not sure the reason. it doesn't make sense, may be front and rear OEM is of different compound ?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=721385
in op's post, it says he is currently running some "low noise" pads, my guess is those would be worse than OEM.
I would recommend playing it safe, run a decent pads front and rear. We might be wrong, that you may run the whole weekend w/o an issue on stock pads/fluid (I know of a few faster drivers that are very easy on brakes). but why take that chance. if you destroyed the pads, you go home early, you still have to buy new pads, and also new rotors (as you are metal to metal). you also wasted a whole fun day, gas to drive to and back.