Downshifting more than one gear at a time?
I'm at that dangerous point in the track learning curve where I'm actually thinking and reading about improving my performance, rather than just waiting for my next track day.
I was taught at my first school to downshift one gear at a time. There are two obvious reasons for this, it seems to me: It may be easier on the synchros, and it lessens the likelihood of over-revving the engine on a downshift. I've been doing that (I have eight track days under my belt).
But, now I'm questioning that. For me, at least, it takes longer to do two or three downshifts than to do one (makes sense, I think), and it increases the chances of a mistake. It seems to me that, at least once I become familiar with a track, so I know what I will have as an exit speed (and hence I know what gear I will want), I would be smoother and faster only downshifting once (e.g., 5th directly to 3rd, rather than 5th to 4th, followed immediately by 4th to 3rd).
I do heel/toe rev match, with increasing smoothness.
What is the collective wisdom on this issue?
I was taught at my first school to downshift one gear at a time. There are two obvious reasons for this, it seems to me: It may be easier on the synchros, and it lessens the likelihood of over-revving the engine on a downshift. I've been doing that (I have eight track days under my belt).
But, now I'm questioning that. For me, at least, it takes longer to do two or three downshifts than to do one (makes sense, I think), and it increases the chances of a mistake. It seems to me that, at least once I become familiar with a track, so I know what I will have as an exit speed (and hence I know what gear I will want), I would be smoother and faster only downshifting once (e.g., 5th directly to 3rd, rather than 5th to 4th, followed immediately by 4th to 3rd).
I do heel/toe rev match, with increasing smoothness.
What is the collective wisdom on this issue?
There are only two places at PR where you might want to skip gears. 5->3 in T2 and 4->2 in T3A. Neither place is particularly troublesome to go through the gears in order.
Spokane, however, is a bit of a different story. The braking zone between 1 and 2 is very short, and there can be problems finding enough time to go from 5->3.
I've tried them both ways, and had instructors advise me to do it both ways. I have pretty much come back to going through the gears in sequence, even in Spokane.
It mostly comes down to personal preference. Which way makes you, personally, smoother and more consistant? Whichever way does that is probably the method you should use.
Spokane, however, is a bit of a different story. The braking zone between 1 and 2 is very short, and there can be problems finding enough time to go from 5->3.
I've tried them both ways, and had instructors advise me to do it both ways. I have pretty much come back to going through the gears in sequence, even in Spokane.
It mostly comes down to personal preference. Which way makes you, personally, smoother and more consistant? Whichever way does that is probably the method you should use.
Thanks, Mike. The braking zone into turn 2 in Spokane is the one that got me to wondering this. The weather was so awful that weekend that it didn't matter much, but if I were flying at the end of the straight, I suspect I'd still be carrying well over 100 into the turn 2 braking zone, and that takes two quick shifts there!
At PR, turn 2 is the only place I would do it; if I'm not held up at 3a by a slower car, I will take 3a in 3rd, and downshift to 2nd at turn-in to 3b. But if I ever learn to take turns 8 and 9 right, I'll run out of fifth gear before the end of the front straight (I now often redline at the end (if it's dry), so I just hold it there, at 130 on these tires with an '04). If I start using 6th going into turn 2, I don't know how thrilled I'll be about three downshifts.
At PR, turn 2 is the only place I would do it; if I'm not held up at 3a by a slower car, I will take 3a in 3rd, and downshift to 2nd at turn-in to 3b. But if I ever learn to take turns 8 and 9 right, I'll run out of fifth gear before the end of the front straight (I now often redline at the end (if it's dry), so I just hold it there, at 130 on these tires with an '04). If I start using 6th going into turn 2, I don't know how thrilled I'll be about three downshifts.
Originally Posted by 124Spider,May 9 2005, 03:00 PM
I suspect I'd still be carrying well over 100 into the turn 2 braking zone
I think the key is to have a strategy for a particular track and use it consistently. The problems tend to be worst when you try to play it by ear.
Consistency tends to foster less errors than trying to remember things like "on such and such a track, in given weather conditions and on this tire at this entry speed, I can skip 4th and go from 5th to 3rd." If you have to get those heel/toe downshifts done quicker in short braking zones, then that's the better skill to learn imho.
Of course YMMV, but braking/downshifting the same way every time will make it second nature regardless of when and where you might do it. Wear and tear on the syncros will of coure be less if you go through the gears in sequence as well. There will always be that one time where it might work better to skip gears, but overall it's probably better to avoid it. At least that's my $.02.
Of course YMMV, but braking/downshifting the same way every time will make it second nature regardless of when and where you might do it. Wear and tear on the syncros will of coure be less if you go through the gears in sequence as well. There will always be that one time where it might work better to skip gears, but overall it's probably better to avoid it. At least that's my $.02.
I haven't tried my S at Pacific yet, but I do sequential downshifts on both my old miata (check out my in-car video at Proformance's home page, scroll down to bottom) and my BMW (video at Imagestation) at Pacific. It feels kind of busy at turn 2 but IMO it's smoother and more stable. Besides, I felt great to hear the throttle-blip from my revvy ITB'ed miata and the great throttle-blip sound from my 6-cylinder BMW.
Now if you're talking about squeezing every tiny bit of juice out of the brakes at a wheel-to-wheel competition, that's probably another story.
Now if you're talking about squeezing every tiny bit of juice out of the brakes at a wheel-to-wheel competition, that's probably another story.
I skip gears all the time on the street, and if a situation presents itself at the track where I need to do so, I do.
Watkins Glen is where I drive most, and most of the track is just going between 3 and 4, except the back straight demands 5th. There are times when traffic presents itself and skipping a gear is required. For me, I don't live my life worrying about synchros, they are there to perform a job, if they wear out I'll deal with it, but I suspect that ain't going to happen...
Watkins Glen is where I drive most, and most of the track is just going between 3 and 4, except the back straight demands 5th. There are times when traffic presents itself and skipping a gear is required. For me, I don't live my life worrying about synchros, they are there to perform a job, if they wear out I'll deal with it, but I suspect that ain't going to happen...
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One other thought, practice makes perfect. If you have a track where skipping a gear would be advantages, then start doing a lot of this type of shifting on the street.
When students come to the track and say no to the question can you heel toe, I tell them to practice that out on the street and depending on how bad they are we may not want to do it on the track. I would say skipping gears is the same sort of thing. Develop an aptitude for this in day to day driving so on the track it becomes second nature, not something that requires a lot of your attention.
When students come to the track and say no to the question can you heel toe, I tell them to practice that out on the street and depending on how bad they are we may not want to do it on the track. I would say skipping gears is the same sort of thing. Develop an aptitude for this in day to day driving so on the track it becomes second nature, not something that requires a lot of your attention.
I go through the gears and not skip. If you are heel-toeing properly then I don't think it takes any extra time because you do this while you are braking, uninterrupted, and you can go through 2-3 gears (not let out clutch till final) in that time. I find it's less chance of a mistake.



