robrob

No, the rear of the car is going into ABS before the fronts--the rear braking has exceeded the amount of grip available and the tire is skidding. Adding more aggressive rear brake pads will simply get you into the skid and ABS sooner.

The front brakes are working harder than the rear because the front tires have more grip available (more weight on the front tires allows more braking actin). Lift the rear completely off the ground and spin the rear tire--how much brake is needed to stop it?

robrob

Cory, I'm getting great life out of the Enduro pads but they're eating up my expensive brake disks. They seem to be similar to the XP12 in their disk wear. I'm going back to XP10s or XR2s up front after these Enduro pads wear out.

psychoazn

What about the guys running 255/45/17 on 17x10 with 16k springs? I can't imagine the tires flexing THAT much. You might get 80% contact if that.

One thing that REALLY stands out to me is how quickly my BRZ stops compared to the s2k. We all know tire compound is the limiting factor. The BRZ ran 215 star specs, while the s2k runs 255 RS3. In theory, the S2k should have every advantage. In reality, the lack of camber on the BRZ allows it to brake later from the same speed... contact patch.

as always YMMV; just some more food for thought.

CKit

You may be right, but I have a hard time believing that the braking difference is all attributed to camber.

robrob

Psycho, the S2000 is known in the wheel-to-wheel racing community for having superb brakes and the ability to out brake almost anything on the track. If your Subaru is braking better than your S2000 then your S2000 probably has a problem.

hatrickstu

I lol'd at this post.

Good thread. I would also believe you could run much more brake bias to the front on a square setup.

ndogg

Need more front bias?

Croc

this is what i was thinking seeing all you guys runing more aggressive front pads while for me same pad front/rear worked good with no ABS problems (my tires are ap2 OEM stagger)

sheel

Great discussion in the thread, thanks for the info...

Btw, just for clarification - i'm running 255 all around on 17x9 rims, 700lbs up front and 650lbs rear springs on AST coils, stock sways, oem brake calipers, and rear wing (GTC-200). Front undertray/splitter is on the way...

I did find a brake bias calculator (excel tool) online, but not sure how accurate or reliable it is. I also don't understand the calculations/formulas, so i'm interested in learning more about that as well.

Cool, let me know how this turns out, and if ya'll need any help Would be great to see some temps/measurements to understand the theories.


Rob, do you know why honda would've designed for more rear bias? I would assume that if a car has more rear bias, there's higher likely hood for getting the rears to hit ABS, therefore making the rear end unstable and unsafe for the street? Vs. locking up the fronts or hitting abs up front should be more controllable.

If the front tires have more grip, wouldn't that mean we would need less front bias to maintain the same braking performance, but more front bias to reach the limits - assuming same speeds? Increased friction/surface area up front... Definitely more heat generated in the pads when working towards those limits...

robrob

Sheel, it's not that Honda designed it with rear bias (you're right, they didn't, front brake lockup first is more stable and safer), but the mild front bias built in is overwhelmed by r-comp grip.

No, you need the brakes with the most grip to work the most. If you have no bias (brakes = front and rear) and under braking the front is weighted and the rear is unweighted, the rear will start to slide first while the fronts have excess grip you're not using. Adding front bias will allow you to use that extra grip for braking. You'd then go on to dial in front bias until the fronts lock up just before the rears.