NelsonI

This one could be pretty important for me. My hands hit my legs when I turn the wheel in every S2000 I've driven, which have all been AP2s. Anything to reduce this issue would be pretty helpful. Not that I really care about comfort or ergonomics at this point. But it would be nice to not have to deal with it mid-slalom.

TheNick

If you are turning the wheel more than 22.5deg in a slalom - you are doing it wrong. (unless you are driving an ST Civic/CRX)

NelsonI

hahaha I've been known to do it wrong, but probably not that wrong. Those older Hondas do have some slow racks, but the Lemons car (late 80s Civic sedan) I helped with last season was the worst ever: a power rack converted to pseudo-manual with closed loops. Was like driving a go kart with a bus wheel.

Looks like it's gonna be an 06 to get the ease of tuning with the new Hondata tool. I know a good Honda engine guy with a shop who should be able to help me nail it down with a tune.

Still leery of the drive-by-wire throttle due to my experiences with the Z (not the best DBW system ever), but the rest of it seems to outweigh that.

Orthonormal

The difference in steering ratio from the AP1 to AP2 is pretty tiny, and both are pretty quick compared to most other cars. You can get the quicker AP1 ratio with a CR model if you think it's important.

IMP

I have nothing to add to this thread. I have an AP1. I bought it stupid cheap. I'm gonna drive the ever living daylights out of it.

That is all.

Wait... no it isn't.

Having owned an RX8 and competed at nats in it in '05 and '06 in BS, the RX8 was just something that ran faster than the sum of its parts. No one has really put their finger on *why* they're faster than the Zs as far as I know. It just autoxed really, really well. Don't forget, with the shorty tire (245/35-18) the gearing of the car was improved a tad (accell better) but shortened 2nd and 1st gears a bit... to around 62 in 2nd. And it had a torque curve (if you could call it that) that was about as linear as linear can be.

--kC

glagola1

FWIW, when I turn off VSA, I can make the car do anything I want so I assume it goes away completely. Thank God.

There is some funny DBW stuff though. It hasn't appeared in auto-x situations yet but in daily traffic, I can feel it do some weird things when starting slow from lights occasionally. Nothing that would affect race type driving though.

I am enjoying my AP2 vs my AP1 I had and auto-xed for 3 years. I put 100k on that car so I got to know it pretty well. The AP2 has gobs more juice low down and is just more refined in all kinds of small ways. You won't have to reweld your upper a-arm mounts if you get an AP2 I'm with Nick, what the hell is so bad with the CDV? I barely feel it and I can still spin the tires at launch so who cares? If it saves the diff, I'm all for it.

I think the improved rear bumpsteer is going to be a big help on street tires too. My AP2 feels much more planted than the AP1 in daily driving.

The issue of the steering rack rate change is silly. I wouldn't consider it at all. After coming from the CRX, it feels fast as hell in the AP2. I'm going to have to slow down my hands considerably. I mean, if the CRX can go that fast with a horribly slow rack, I don't think it's going to be an issue.

Regarding weights: I think we have to look at this in percentages. In the CRX that weighed 1870 a difference of 50 lbs was substantial. In the S2000, that's not much.

Let's face it, the S2000 on street tires is going to be a difficult car to drive to it's fullest potential. Set up will dominate - not hp or weight (at least between the various S2K options). Who knows what the MX5 has in store for us.

NelsonI

Kick ass, guys, thanks for all the input. You've managed to change my mind!

It definitely looks like an AP2 is the way to go, all things considered, and probably an 06+ for me since I like easy ECU action. But I agree all 3 types are still probably very close overall.

Now to start figuring out how fast it's reasonably safe to spin the 2.2L engine and figuring out spring rates and tire choices.

TheNick

Ugh tires...

I need to find someone local to me willing to go in on a set of each Dunlops, Hankooks and Bridgestones...

I'm just going to end up picking one and sticking with it I think

glagola1

Remeber that all the tire testing in the world doesn't mean anything if your goal is to win Nationals and you are not testing tires on the surface at Lincoln.

TheNick

Good thing I only live 6hrs from there and will probably run.....oh say 4-5 events there in 2010