End of the square vs staggered
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I do think things deviated a bit from my original intent though. I fully recognize that more tire in most cases is better, that said things become rather limited in this car on a reasonable budget and without hacking shit up. For 95% the debate of square vs staggered is always going to mean 225/255 vs 255/255. That said a square setup certainly brought a balance to my car that I had been searching for for a long time, the key being balance.
For many of us, the square vs. staggered phrase translates to upgrading the fronts from 225 to 255. And in that context, I agree with bgoetz that there is no more discussion needed - certainly not for me either. Square is the way to go. But if there are no limits on tire width, then I'm not sure this is a debate that can lead to an agreeable outcome. There are so many additional variables as ZDan pointed out.
Lastly, when I had my Z, I used to spend a lot of time on a site called hybridz.org which is to the Z world what s2ki.com is to the S2000. (ZDan will remember it). One of the rules of the site is "There is no best." and the mods likely would have shut a thread like this down early on. There has been a lot of valuable info shared here, but I think it's probably not possible to get to an agreement without at least narrowing the scope of what square vs. staggered means.
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The question is: what did he do to the suspension to accommodate the tall tires. The effort seems to have been made for a sealed airflow.
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From: Windsor, CA
Since he's got about an inch and half of poke out of the front fenders, it's probably fair to say that the suspension is insanely stiff to the point that the wheels never compress into the fenders.
Thread Starter
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OK, so that *IS* another difference other than just tire sizes. More stretch/less pooch.
First post: In in terms of times I am going to say RS4s square are going to be about 1-2 sec faster than RE71R staggered.
To me that says you don't have lap times to back it up.
But nevermind that, I don't for one second think that 225/255 should be faster than 255 square all else equal. I wouldn't necessarily bet against 225/255 RE71R vs. 255-square RS4, though, that might be pretty close...
You certainly don't need to cut rear fenders to run rear tires a good deal wider than 255 in back.
Many different setups, but until recently always 225/255? 225/255 vs. 255-square is not much of a study of the effects of tire stagger IMO...
Well there's no debate there as far as I'm concerned... Again, my argument is against the idea that "square" is necessarily perfectly optimal. For a given overall tire width if square is indeed perfectly optimal, then slightly staggered *either way* would be close.
Anyway, if your point is that 255 square is better than 225/255, OK. But that is not The End of square vs. staggered...
First post: In in terms of times I am going to say RS4s square are going to be about 1-2 sec faster than RE71R staggered.
To me that says you don't have lap times to back it up.
But nevermind that, I don't for one second think that 225/255 should be faster than 255 square all else equal. I wouldn't necessarily bet against 225/255 RE71R vs. 255-square RS4, though, that might be pretty close...
You certainly don't need to cut rear fenders to run rear tires a good deal wider than 255 in back.
Many different setups, but until recently always 225/255? 225/255 vs. 255-square is not much of a study of the effects of tire stagger IMO...
Well there's no debate there as far as I'm concerned... Again, my argument is against the idea that "square" is necessarily perfectly optimal. For a given overall tire width if square is indeed perfectly optimal, then slightly staggered *either way* would be close.
Anyway, if your point is that 255 square is better than 225/255, OK. But that is not The End of square vs. staggered...
Community Organizer
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From: in my garage
Is that all I can expect from going square? Just 1 second?
Hmm.
2019 NASA Nationals at your home track bgoetz. See you there?
Sept. 18 - 22 2019
Hmm.
2019 NASA Nationals at your home track bgoetz. See you there?
Sept. 18 - 22 2019
Last edited by freq; Oct 12, 2018 at 06:19 PM.
Joined: Apr 2006
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That car also has the rear wing back and up, the builder probably has the skills to make the fenders fit. But what does the geometry look like? Does it use dropped spindles?
Note those tires are probably on 12" wide front and 13" wide rear rims. In the 18" size, which is probably the best choice for brake clearance, a set of 4 tires runs $1700.
Note the car is a 640hp turbo with a significantly sized, external combustion anti-lag burner.
Thread Starter
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I instruct with a great group and get in about 8 weekends with them and then instruct 2 weekends with the PCA, so most of my efforts are to better my own times. That said I have access to instruct for NASA so maybe! I am not sure how my car would end up classing because of my brakes. Plus I may have some additional plans for the car next year
we will see, it is a great track though, so definitely go if you haven’t been there!
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From: 'burbs of Chicago
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Consider too what is the set up for? Is it a magic fastest lap? Or is it 1.5 hour stint average? The eastiest to drive is often not the fastest. I was reading about the green and white Audi R8 (I think GT3 class) that just raced at Road Atlanta for petit Leman. The set up it such that for the Majority if the tire stint the car will oversteer on corner entry, understeer at Apex and then Oversteer at corner exit.
That means the driver has got to be on the wheel all the time.
That means the driver has got to be on the wheel all the time.