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End of the square vs staggered

 
Old 10-06-2018, 05:34 PM
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Default End of the square vs staggered

ok, so I tracked the hell out of a staggered S2k and always strived to be “different”. I ended up with a pretty solid setup, full aero, brakes, etc and was able to knock out some decent times. I can truly say I drove a staggered S2k 10/10 in all forms. Instructing and getting to drive/ride in some other fine cars my car always had this edge that wasn’t right, and I always felt it could be better balanced. Well I finally went square and no question the car is better balanced. The oversteer is more, but the car is so much better balanced. So for me the debate is over square is most certainly better for this car.

In in terms of times I am going to say RS4s square are going to be about 1-2 sec faster than RE71R staggered.

And it totally fixed this issue:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra...steer-1187907/
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:49 PM
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Now, what about a reverse stagger ......
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:50 PM
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What tire sizes were you on in both cases?
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:02 AM
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Square means nothing for all out grip/performance if the widths are sub par. So the term is rather blanket/misleading. For example, you think a typical 255 "squared" set up is faster then a 255/275 staggered one? How about a 225 squared against a 225/255 stagger? Wheres the line at differentiating the performance level? I assume the OP ran a 225/255 stagger, well of course a 255/255 will be faster if you set up the suspension properly to make it confidence inspiring/manageable, there is more total tire surface on the ground. The added breaking performance alone moving from a 225 to 255 up front where 70% of the breaking forces is done would be enough to see an improvement in lap times

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Old 10-07-2018, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
Square means nothing for all out grip/performance if the widths are sub par. So the term is rather blanket/misleading. For example, you think a typical 255 "squared" set up is faster then a 255/275 staggered one? How about a 225 squared against a 225/255 stagger? Wheres the line at differentiating the performance level? I assume the OP ran a 225/255 stagger, well of course a 255/255 will be faster if you set up the suspension properly to make it confidence inspiring/manageable, there is more total tire surface on the ground. The added breaking performance alone moving from a 225 to 255 up front where 70% of the breaking forces is done would be enough to see an improvement in lap times
It is more about balance vs overall tire. So with that I am not sure a 255/275 staggered would have the same balance as a 255 square setup.

Fir earlier question, I am running 255 square.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:10 AM
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Yep, all the Formula One cars run a square tire setup. Definitely faster.

-- Chuck
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:25 AM
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It requires testing and can also vary by track. At Daytona aero and rolling resistance are more a consideration so personally I would run a 225 or 245 there to see what the car would do. My s2000 with square 245 Hoosier was always faster than 255 RS-3. Then wheel width matters. My civic was best with 205fronts on a 9” wheel and 205rear on 8” wheel. A boosted civic might run more front tire but on my k20 it was counterproductive. The rears just keep the gas tank off the ground.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by miamirice View Post
My s2000 with square 245 Hoosier was always faster than 255 RS-3.
well yeah, isn’t a 245 Hoosier basically a 255? Plus it is a Hoosier vs a 200 treadwear
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Deckoz View Post
I'd disagree.
Basically every model after 00-03 tries to put more bias towards the front for understeer.


It blows my mind that I read about people saying my car is faster square! Yet they either have a later models year which is setup closer to square, or the mods they have done also push the car toward better handling square. Your going to be fastest with whatever your car is setup for... But when it comes down to it more grip = better. More tire on the ground = more grip.
Exactly.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck S View Post
Yep, all the Formula One cars run a square tire setup. Definitely faster.

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Doesn't apply. These cars are long from the days of whats works best, but what works best within the rules. Back when there were limited rules and less less sophisticated aero, all these cars had a heavy staggered tire set ups. You cant take a blanket statement and then apply it to any platform because its convenient.

I appreciate the OP experience, doing some back to back trial and error, but its hardly comprehensive enough to make a thread on the debate being settled. Its a failed notion to start with. What is faster all depends on a host of variables.
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