End of the square vs staggered - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums

Notices
S2000 Racing and Competition The S2000 on the track and Solo circuit. Some of the fastest S2000 drivers in the world call this forum home.

End of the square vs staggered

Old 10-06-2018, 05:34 PM
  #1  
Thread Starter
 
bgoetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,664
Thanked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Default End of the square vs staggered

ok, so I tracked the hell out of a staggered S2k and always strived to be “different”. I ended up with a pretty solid setup, full aero, brakes, etc and was able to knock out some decent times. I can truly say I drove a staggered S2k 10/10 in all forms. Instructing and getting to drive/ride in some other fine cars my car always had this edge that wasn’t right, and I always felt it could be better balanced. Well I finally went square and no question the car is better balanced. The oversteer is more, but the car is so much better balanced. So for me the debate is over square is most certainly better for this car.

In in terms of times I am going to say RS4s square are going to be about 1-2 sec faster than RE71R staggered.

And it totally fixed this issue:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra...steer-1187907/
bgoetz is offline  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:49 PM
  #2  
Community Organizer
 
freq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in my garage
Posts: 20,488
Thanked 113 Times in 108 Posts
Default

Now, what about a reverse stagger ......
freq is offline  
Old 10-06-2018, 10:50 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
Nate Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 154
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default

What tire sizes were you on in both cases?
Nate Tempest is offline  
Old 10-07-2018, 01:02 AM
  #4  
Community Organizer
 
s2000Junky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 27,122
Thanked 158 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Square means nothing for all out grip/performance if the widths are sub par. So the term is rather blanket/misleading. For example, you think a typical 255 "squared" set up is faster then a 255/275 staggered one? How about a 225 squared against a 225/255 stagger? Wheres the line at differentiating the performance level? I assume the OP ran a 225/255 stagger, well of course a 255/255 will be faster if you set up the suspension properly to make it confidence inspiring/manageable, there is more total tire surface on the ground. The added breaking performance alone moving from a 225 to 255 up front where 70% of the breaking forces is done would be enough to see an improvement in lap times

Last edited by s2000Junky; 10-07-2018 at 01:07 AM.
s2000Junky is online now  
Old 10-07-2018, 04:41 AM
  #5  
Thread Starter
 
bgoetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,664
Thanked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
Square means nothing for all out grip/performance if the widths are sub par. So the term is rather blanket/misleading. For example, you think a typical 255 "squared" set up is faster then a 255/275 staggered one? How about a 225 squared against a 225/255 stagger? Wheres the line at differentiating the performance level? I assume the OP ran a 225/255 stagger, well of course a 255/255 will be faster if you set up the suspension properly to make it confidence inspiring/manageable, there is more total tire surface on the ground. The added breaking performance alone moving from a 225 to 255 up front where 70% of the breaking forces is done would be enough to see an improvement in lap times
It is more about balance vs overall tire. So with that I am not sure a 255/275 staggered would have the same balance as a 255 square setup.

Fir earlier question, I am running 255 square.
bgoetz is offline  
Old 10-07-2018, 05:10 AM
  #6  
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chesterfield VA
Posts: 6,277
Thanked 168 Times in 165 Posts
Default

Yep, all the Formula One cars run a square tire setup. Definitely faster.

-- Chuck
Chuck S is offline  
Old 10-07-2018, 05:25 AM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 277
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

It requires testing and can also vary by track. At Daytona aero and rolling resistance are more a consideration so personally I would run a 225 or 245 there to see what the car would do. My s2000 with square 245 Hoosier was always faster than 255 RS-3. Then wheel width matters. My civic was best with 205fronts on a 9” wheel and 205rear on 8” wheel. A boosted civic might run more front tire but on my k20 it was counterproductive. The rears just keep the gas tank off the ground.
miamirice is offline  
Old 10-07-2018, 06:48 AM
  #8  
Thread Starter
 
bgoetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,664
Thanked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by miamirice View Post
My s2000 with square 245 Hoosier was always faster than 255 RS-3.
well yeah, isn’t a 245 Hoosier basically a 255? Plus it is a Hoosier vs a 200 treadwear
bgoetz is offline  
Old 10-07-2018, 07:45 AM
  #9  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 353
Thanked 36 Times in 26 Posts
Default

I'd disagree. I have no doubt a 245/275 setup will be faster, especially if the car is setup for it. To many people buy coilovers with spring rates setup for square.

Basically every model after 00-03 tries to put more bias towards the front for understeer.

Take an AP1 stock setup, with Eibach 32mm front sway, to increase rear grip, coils with 8k-front/10k-rear, or 10k-front/12k rear, with 245s(8.5 or 9"wheel) up front and 275(10-10.5" wheel) rear, and you'll have a car setup for staggered.

It blows my mind that I read about people saying my car is faster square! Yet they either have a later models year which is setup closer to square, or the mods they have done also push the car toward better handling square. Your going to be fastest with whatever your car is setup for... But when it comes down to it more grip = better. More tire on the ground = more grip.
Deckoz is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Deckoz For This Useful Post:
freq (10-08-2018)
Old 10-07-2018, 10:32 AM
  #10  
Community Organizer
 
s2000Junky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 27,122
Thanked 158 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Deckoz View Post
I'd disagree.
Basically every model after 00-03 tries to put more bias towards the front for understeer.


It blows my mind that I read about people saying my car is faster square! Yet they either have a later models year which is setup closer to square, or the mods they have done also push the car toward better handling square. Your going to be fastest with whatever your car is setup for... But when it comes down to it more grip = better. More tire on the ground = more grip.
Exactly.
s2000Junky is online now  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands