Hey all,

I have a problem that I hope someone here may be able to shed some light on.
When entering a right hand turn my S2 tends to shutter and shake. It's a progressive shutter that begins at corner entry and get worse as I hit the apex, then tapers off as I straighten out the car.
The problem only occurs when making right hand turns and only when the load is really being put on the front left side of the car. For example, I feel it the worst when entering the bowl turn at the streets of willow running in the clockwise direction. When I get into the bowl turn, and all the load is on the left side of the car is when I get it the most. The shuttering seems to be coming from the front left wheel/suspention. I've already ruled out the wheel and or tire being the problem, as well as the wheel bearings. Everything else seems to be fine with the front suspension components. I've checked and double check everything, yet the problem is still there.

Has anyone had this problem, and if so what was it?
Any thoughts are welcome as I'm trying to figure out what I should try next.

Thanks for help.

 

How did you rule out the tire/wheel? Did you swap side-to-side? I had my original S02s reversed on the wheels to get more life out of them and picked up a nasty shudder at 70+mph. My 1st guess would be the tire.

That said, there's something to be said about the addition of the lower strut bar (I think that's the one and not the upper one - one has virtually no effect while the other has a mild effect of reducing flex over rough pavement). It won't make you faster but could reduce the shudder you refer to *if* it's due to the suspension attachment points moving slightly...

 

Did you look closely at the upper AArm mounting point brackets? They have a tendency to come loose on the earlier cars. Look for cracks in the undercoating around the base of the brackets.

If thats not it i suggest swapping front tires.

Dave

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I know its defiantly not the tires. I've tried three sets of difference tires and wheels. I've tested with street tires, and two different R comp tires now. It's worse with the RA1's because they don't slip as much. The more contact with the group, the worse it is.

Dave, I did check the mounting points to see if the welds were not holding, but they are fine too. No cracks at all. I'll check the bolts there just to make sure they didn't come loose.

I will try a sub frame brace, at this point I can't think of anything else but wear and tear. It's very possible that the car is getting old and needs some stiffing now. It's a 2000 model year and it may be that's all I need.

Any other ideas?
The only other thing I can think of is the shock it self, all though it testes out just fine in every other test I've put it through.

 

Doh! I should have read more closely before i responded...

Can you describe the shudder in more detail?

Is it single one off shudder or random period reccuring shudder (like a loose wheel shifting directions randomly) or maybe a single frequency recurring shudder (like a wheel balance issue)?

Is there an associated change in direction or steering wheel load?

Is there a change in traction when near the limit?

Is there a noise associated with it?

 

Could it be worn or broken bushings? I thought I read once of the rear bushing of the lower arm going. Also check that the shocks attachment points are torqued.

 

SuperKool,
I don't think the lower brace will help. I son't have a brace and I don't have that problem. It sounds like there's definately something wrong with it. Does it happen in parking lots? If so, take your service tech for a spin at a parking lot and make the turn so he can understand what you are talking about.

Definately something wrong, I just don't know what.

Warren

 

Dave,

The shutter is ONLY felt under heavy load on the left side of the car (when making right hand turns under speed on a race track) The shutter starts out small and increases while load is increased. The Shutter is a single frequency but does come to a violet shutter before I straighten out the wheel. When going straight or turning left, there is no problem. Also, it's only apparent at the limit of traction. Once the tire breaks loose, then the shutter is gone. It's only there when the suspension has a load to maintain. The shutter is never there under normal driving conditions. That's why this problem is so perplexing. I can't for the life of me figure out what the problem is. And no one can figure it out either. There is no associated change in direction or steering wheel load. There is no change or loss in traction when near the limit either. But, it's only there at the limit of traction, or very minor. I'd say I can start to feel the shutter at about 7/10 and above driving. Anything less, and it's not noticeable.


Rlaifatt, I'll check the rear bushings. I haven't checked them yet, so maybe I'll get lucky there.

Warren, I've had the car looked at by one of the best Honda guys I know, and everything checks out.

I think I'll have to replace suspension components one by one until I can find the problem, but that can take forever.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll keep at it, and if you can think of anything else, let me know.

 

I noticed you didn't say specifically that the shudder is felt in the steering wheel, but just that the car would shudder and it appears to be coming from the left front. Long shot, but could it be that it is caused by something in the driveline that's only felt under left lateral load so it only appears to be steering or left-front suspension related? Maybe the diff, drive shaft etc. If you don't feel it mostly in the steering wheel then it's probably not the front wheel or front suspension. Just my guess; I'm not mechanically oriented.

 

You know, you may be right rlaifatt. I do feel the shutter in the steering wheel, but also through the car just as much. It could very well have something to do with the drive train. That also makes since because of the high RPMs generated on the track.

I will do an inspection of the drive train and see if can come up with anything.

Great suggestion, thanks.