So, in my quest to build the ultimate cheater setup, I'd like to maximize my suspension as much as possible while still staying within my points cap limit.

I know the biggest mod is the driver mod (I've been working on that - though not nearly enough).

Current car setup:

-17x9 square with 255 ZII square.
-GTC200 wing
-Offset camber joints (front)
-Test pipe for massive torque and power!!!
-Front CR bar
-Rear '06 bar
-Springs/Dampers (stock... Notes: every thing is back dated from all the previous models to use front springs and/or dampers from each of the different years that had the stiffest springs/dampers - all non-CR)

Anyway, I'm currently at my points cap of 3.375. Any spring or damper mods will bump me up to the next class.

I'd like the car to be more stiffly sprung and was wondering what is the limit of substituting bar for spring and how this would affect the dampers. I know that you can't just slap on 700lbs spring on the stock dampers and expect it to work since the valving will be miss matched (not that i could do that from a points position anyway).

However, if i were to substitute stiff bars, what is the extend of doing this before compromising the dampers capabilities?

Also, I do know that this would defeat the purpose of having "independent" suspension and would essentially "link" the left and right sides similar to a leaf spring. I know what this means in theory but have no experience with it. I assume this would compromise the car's stability when using curbing at higher speeds. What else am I missing as far as potential pros/cons?

Also something to note is that my intended use is for track driving and not auto-x.

 

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/818...nsion-springs/

 

I felt the comptech bar at 4 of 5 and the Eibach rear were great upgrades for auto-cross on stock suspension & street tires, and track-driving on RA1's. However, track driving on street tires might be a different story. My car felt great on track with Whiteline front bar, stock '08 rear, and RS3's. Never got a chance to mix he comptech/Eibach bars with street tires on track. Might just depend on the track. Stiff bars are great for transitions but like you said, can rob grip in the sweepers, which is pretty much all of track driving. It might come down to camber and tire temps across the tire ...???

 

For an AP2 I've always really liked the Eibach front sway on the stiffer setting and OEM AP2 rear bar.

 

Yes, upgrading the sway bar only can achieve what you're looking for. One only need look at just how crazy fast stock class S2000s are in autocross to see this. They're not allowed to touch springs, so they put a monstrous sway bar on and proceed to go very fast. Granted they can change shocks but some have not changed shocks and it's clear that it's not a big deal.

The dampers do not need to be changed for a sway bar change, that's only for springs.

 

This is not exactly true. While yes if a bump is large enough to hit both wheels on the axle at the same time there is no effective spring force, if the bump only acts on one side, that spring rate of the sway bar will have to be controlled by the damper.

In a perfect world huge sway bars are not the way to go IMO as they decrease mechanical grip and have a lifting force on inside wheel. However if you trying to work with rules its worth a shot to maintain the correct contact patch and alignment angles. Remember whether its with stiffer springs or sway bars technically you are decreasing mechanical grip potential. Stiffer isnt always better

 

Point takens, although i'm thinking slightly stiffer than a stock 06 setup is likely better.

I've been driving on 06 springs/dampers for about 3 years now and just recently added the wing and square wheel setup and CR front bar. It's mostly neutral, but I do feel that it does push a little bit. I'd also like the car to settle and transfer weight a little bit faster.

I'm going to do the 08-09 spring/damper combo up front, and the 01 spring/damper combo in the rear (i've already sourced the parts).

I currently have a CR front bar and 06 rear bar.

I'm trying to decide on whether I should should go with an '01 bar with an effective rate of 427 lbs. or the 02-03 bar at 396 or just change it up all together and get eibach bars front and rear. I'm not going with any of those crazy gendron or ankey bars - seems like too much bar for track driving and too much $$$$ that I don't have...

I just want to make sure that i'm not missing and over looking some of the cons with doing this setup over my current setup.

 

Yep I wasnt trying to convey that it wasn't a good idea, you just have to really get down to what your trying to change or improve and go about it logically. If your dampers are a bit over taxed with the new rates and allow the tires to hop and skip a touch it may slow you down, however if the quicker transitions and maintaining alignment may improve and allow for an even faster time. One step back 3 forward if you will. It all about managing that.

The Eibach bars seem like a good idea and should give you flatter cornering and adjustability without effecting your dampers too much.

 

Keep in mind you are only changing the roll stiffness so you will still end up with the same amount of dive and squat and likely some new bad behavior if you run bars that are too stiff. What might work for autocross may be terrible on track.

As Mike said stiffer isn't necessarily better but lower COG is almost always better within reason. I say lose the wing, get suspension, and start following Ameer at 13CW.

 

There's a fun a build and a winning build.

Wingless only wins you respect, not laptimes... wings are proven addition to the setup for going faster (proven by numerous experienced drivers who have tried both wingless and winged setups at numerous tracks). It's pretty hard to come up with a combination of mods adding up to 1.5 points that will net you the same decrease in lap times - the driver mod is free points (i'm working on that).

Anyway, this isn't about wing versus coilovers. Points taken on the other parts about squatting. I know that the bars will only affect lateral movement/weight transfer and not weight transfer under acceleration or braking.

Also, i'm on a budget... coilovers will be around $3500+ for quality ones, and staggered r-comps to fit in class is another $1k, so around ~$5k for a new setup.

OR, i could buy a set of Eibach F/R sways for $370, and install the mix and match OEM dampers/springs I have that I bought for $150 for a total of $520, and spend the remaining $4500 on track fees/expenses (i.e. driver mod) for the next two years. LOL!!! I guess i've answered my own questions now.

I was mainly concerned with the limits of the stock suspension with stiffer bars and what I might be sacrificing by adding them.