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Insurance and Track Question

 
Old 01-08-2019, 08:56 AM
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Lightbulb Insurance and Track Question

Hello all, I've got quite the conundrum but I know people work around it every day (feel free to fast forward to the bottom):

When insuring my S2000, I went through Hagerty, where my Supra is insured because, you know, they're car people.

One of the questions was "will you be participating in any racing events such as track days, auto cross, etc?"
To this I answered something like "I have no idea, is it extra for me to put that on my policy?"
The answer was "no" and the agent made a note of it
Fast forward to the next day and I get a call saying that I cannot be insured if I'm going to be racing my car because of some NY State clause (I'm sure this probably exists in most states).
So I obviously said "then I will not be racing my car"
They made me send in a statement in writing confirming that I will not be engaging in any racing activities with the car and all is good

I know A LOT of S2000 owners autocross and participate in track days with their cars to have fun and get better at driving (that's why I'm here) that are definitely insured for street use.
I'm planning on doing the NY Safety track event this May, but I'll obviously be using my race only GPW S2000 that looks similar to the one I just bought
I've read a few stories of people being dropped for autocrossing from pictures posted on social media and forums
I've heard from a very reputable person of an S2000 being impounded because of an accident AFTER a track event driving home.
Now I don't think anyone should expect to be covered for anything that happens at a track by a regular insurance company (even though I'd imagine autocross is quite a bit safer than driving on a street) but just the idea being dropped because of it is a bit unsettling.
I'm also well aware of "track day insurance" offered by companies such as OpenTrack and Hagerty(NOT in NY) and depending on the even't I'd consider that in the future, however,
I'm not planning on wheel to wheel racing anytime soon, if ever.

Here's the question:
What do you all tell your insurance provider, if anything, if you use your car for autocross/track events?

Last edited by ThisIsRace; 01-10-2019 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Rephrased question
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:54 AM
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I told Hagerty that the car is tracked when I was asked, and there was no issue, but I'm not in NY. State Farm dropped me when they social-media-stalked me and found a track pic, but Hagerty seems fine with it in my state.

Didn't know there could be state laws against insuring a car that is sometimes driven on private property. Seems to me the Jeep and lifted pickup crowd are far more likely to screw up their vehicles mudding and rock crawling, but I haven't heard anybody saying they can't insure theirs.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:08 AM
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I'm in Michigan; these questions have never come up. I wouldn't tell them anything because nothing is covered at the track anyway. What are they going to do? Sue you for lying to them? If an incident were to happen at the track just be a decent human being, not try to scam the insurance company, and all should be good.

With that said....screw insurance companies.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by thomsbrain View Post
I told Hagerty that the car is tracked when I was asked, and there was no issue, but I'm not in NY. State Farm dropped me when they social-media-stalked me and found a track pic, but Hagerty seems fine with it in my state.

Didn't know there could be state laws against insuring a car that is sometimes driven on private property. Seems to me the Jeep and lifted pickup crowd are far more likely to screw up their vehicles mudding and rock crawling, but I haven't heard anybody saying they can't insure theirs.
Ah, glad to know someone with first hand experience of being dropped. The agent at Hagerty genuinely didn't know it wasn't a NY thing so she put me down as going to Autocross the car. When my policy was being reviewed the underwriter called me and told me about the NY stipulation. I tried googling around for a bit but couldn't find anything about what it actually is. I couldn't agree more about the trucks, autocross has to be safer than commuting to work for most people. Thanks for the response
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff View Post
I'm in Michigan; these questions have never come up. I wouldn't tell them anything because nothing is covered at the track anyway. What are they going to do? Sue you for lying to them? If an incident were to happen at the track just be a decent human being, not try to scam the insurance company, and all should be good.

With that said....screw insurance companies.
Hahaha yes, that was exactly my thinking, thanks!
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:55 PM
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I’m in New York. About 4 years ago or so I spoke to Hagerty reps at Lime Rock Park. They said they could insure my car. I let them know that I track it and I was told my car would be covered as long as it was not on track. They even said it’d be covered on a trailer or if I should have an incident in the paddock. Once I was on track though I wouldn’t be covered. At that time I didn’t switch over as my current insurance provider offered me a better deal (no track coverage though and I didn’t mention it to them either).

During the the early days I’d purchase track insurance and then as time passed, I got to a point where I’d made up my mind that if I caused or was in an incident, it was entirely on me.

Have you talked direct to Hagerty or with one of the companies that underwrites for them. If it’s the latter, why not talk to Hagerty directly. I now see that they are selling track day insurance. Matter of fact they were one of the sponsors of the SCCA Time Trials Nationals last year.

My recommendation is that if they’re not allowing it in New York, insure the car with them but purchase track insurance through another provider. You don’t have to tell your insurance provider that you’re tracking your car as long as you’ve no intentions to scam them for an on track incident.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by A 2 View Post
I’m in New York. About 4 years ago or so I spoke to Hagerty reps at Lime Rock Park. They said they could insure my car. I let them know that I track it and I was told my car would be covered as long as it was not on track. They even said it’d be covered on a trailer or if I should have an incident in the paddock. Once I was on track though I wouldn’t be covered. At that time I didn’t switch over as my current insurance provider offered me a better deal (no track coverage though and I didn’t mention it to them either).

During the the early days I’d purchase track insurance and then as time passed, I got to a point where I’d made up my mind that if I caused or was in an incident, it was entirely on me.

Have you talked direct to Hagerty or with one of the companies that underwrites for them. If it’s the latter, why not talk to Hagerty directly. I now see that they are selling track day insurance. Matter of fact they were one of the sponsors of the SCCA Time Trials Nationals last year.

My recommendation is that if they’re not allowing it in New York, insure the car with them but purchase track insurance through another provider. You don’t have to tell your insurance provider that you’re tracking your car as long as you’ve no intentions to scam them for an on track incident.
Thanks for the insight, glad to know that you've been down this road with them. From what I know I was dealing with them directly, I called the number on my existing policy. The agent I spoke to said that its specifically in NY that they can't cover cars that are going to be tracked which is why the first agent I spoke to did not know about it (I'm assuming its not even a question in most states from the other replies).

I do see the perspective of the insurance company though, there are too many people who would do something stupid and then try to get it covered by saying it happened in front of their home or something. Anyways, that was my plan exactly, track insurance for track day. Who is your new provider? Hagerty is good but I think a bit expensive for my coverage.

Thanks again for the reply
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:10 PM
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State laws govern much of this. Here in Virginia, for example, I'm not required to have any liability (or other) insurance on my cars. None.
If the vehicle is uninsured, the motor vehicle owner is required to pay to DMV a $500 uninsured motor vehicle fee in addition to normal registration fees. Payment of the $500 fee does not provide the motorist with any insurance coverage. If involved in an accident, the uninsured motorist remains personally liable. This fee is valid for twelve months but may be prorated for a shorter amount of time.
$500 is cheaper than liability insurance. Insurance is a bet. You're betting the insurance company you're going to have a claim.

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Old 01-10-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thomsbrain View Post
I told Hagerty that the car is tracked when I was asked, and there was no issue, but I'm not in NY. State Farm dropped me when they social-media-stalked me and found a track pic, but Hagerty seems fine with it in my state.

Didn't know there could be state laws against insuring a car that is sometimes driven on private property. Seems to me the Jeep and lifted pickup crowd are far more likely to screw up their vehicles mudding and rock crawling, but I haven't heard anybody saying they can't insure theirs.
That's a bit extreme! I've heard paranoia of such things but never heard a first hand account of it actually happening. Did you have a claim or something that prompted this? I'd think they have better things to do.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:29 PM
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Racing cars have accidents. There has been a lot of insurance fraud with this, both staged accidents or claiming race damage as part of a legitimate street collision or comprehensive claim. They usually won't write coverage for cars in high-speed events. Sometimes 'competitive' events. That last would include autocrosses, but it may be a grey area since the number of claims is small. But there have been autocross accidents where the cars hit objects or even each other. The increased wear and tear on race/track cars increases the chances for accidents from component damage. That is a reason most auto warranties don't cover cars that are tracked. Not an issue here since the youngest S2000 is out of even extended warranties now.

I believe there are firms that insure antique race cars and there is track day insurance. Haggerty is a special case because of the way they write their classic car insurance.

My wife's '38 Buick is written by Haggerty. I need to move my Supra there. The S2000 is under Liberty Mutual and I wouldn't make a claim from an autocross related event. The issue would be if the autocross-related accident included an injury or property damage to someone else (spectator, another competitor) and they made the claim against my insurance.
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