K20C1 Type R Engine in S2K?
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 51
The S2000 is a 20-year-old sports car design that has been out of production for 10 years. OEM part numbers are already drying up. There are lots of things that could be modernized (e.g. LED headlights, a revised suspension with large diameter wheels, etc.). From a performance aspect, the K20C1 is a huge step backward from the F22c.
The Civic Type R is the only performance car in Honda's current lineup. It is FWD where most competitors are AWD, although Honda did a good job with the handling. No DCT option. The engine has maybe a 10% higher power level than similarly sized turbo 4's in family sedans.
If anything, this is a promo for the engine to make the Type R (a 4-door hatchback with styling add-ons that look like they were styled by a drunk high school student) seem part of Honda's sports car heritage. It doesn't pay homage to the S2000, it blasphemes it. Similar to the engine they put in Alonso's McLaren in 2014.
Not that I have an opinion...
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 328
Likes: 16
The K-series, to which the F20/F22 are really siblings, has been the high point of performance engines. It combined roller cams with big valves and large, free-flowing ports. Add VTEC on both intake and exhaust.
The K20C1 has the exhaust manifold built into the head, water-cooled for emissions. VTEC only on the exhaust...again for emissions. And the intake port flow is horrendous.
The Evo and Ford Coyote were the closest to the best of my knowledge. The K-series was better per cylinder and per unit of displacement.
The popular VR and VQ NIssans and Toyota 2JZ-GTE have flat tappet camshafts. The 2JZ also has mediocre port flow and limited bore and stroke size.
The K20C1 may be a grandchild...but is not a performance engine and I can't imagine why anyone would spend the money to adapt one for the S2000.
The K20C1 has the exhaust manifold built into the head, water-cooled for emissions. VTEC only on the exhaust...again for emissions. And the intake port flow is horrendous.
The Evo and Ford Coyote were the closest to the best of my knowledge. The K-series was better per cylinder and per unit of displacement.
The popular VR and VQ NIssans and Toyota 2JZ-GTE have flat tappet camshafts. The 2JZ also has mediocre port flow and limited bore and stroke size.
The K20C1 may be a grandchild...but is not a performance engine and I can't imagine why anyone would spend the money to adapt one for the S2000.
i love Honda motors. I raced that car for 2 years, did a couple years of DE and then recently sold it. It didn’t burn any oil and had no leaks. I can see why they stick K motors in all kinds of other make chassis.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,868
Likes: 467
The CRZ Mugen took an anemic 122hp hybrid sports car and gave it some bolt-ons and 200hp. It was an actual product that Honda sold.
The S2000 is a 20-year-old sports car design that has been out of production for 10 years. OEM part numbers are already drying up. There are lots of things that could be modernized (e.g. LED headlights, a revised suspension with large diameter wheels, etc.). From a performance aspect, the K20C1 is a huge step backward from the F22c.
The Civic Type R is the only performance car in Honda's current lineup. It is FWD where most competitors are AWD, although Honda did a good job with the handling. No DCT option. The engine has maybe a 10% higher power level than similarly sized turbo 4's in family sedans.
If anything, this is a promo for the engine to make the Type R (a 4-door hatchback with styling add-ons that look like they were styled by a drunk high school student) seem part of Honda's sports car heritage. It doesn't pay homage to the S2000, it blasphemes it. Similar to the engine they put in Alonso's McLaren in 2014.
Not that I have an opinion...
The S2000 is a 20-year-old sports car design that has been out of production for 10 years. OEM part numbers are already drying up. There are lots of things that could be modernized (e.g. LED headlights, a revised suspension with large diameter wheels, etc.). From a performance aspect, the K20C1 is a huge step backward from the F22c.
The Civic Type R is the only performance car in Honda's current lineup. It is FWD where most competitors are AWD, although Honda did a good job with the handling. No DCT option. The engine has maybe a 10% higher power level than similarly sized turbo 4's in family sedans.
If anything, this is a promo for the engine to make the Type R (a 4-door hatchback with styling add-ons that look like they were styled by a drunk high school student) seem part of Honda's sports car heritage. It doesn't pay homage to the S2000, it blasphemes it. Similar to the engine they put in Alonso's McLaren in 2014.
Not that I have an opinion...
The engine in the CTR is great.
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
i don’t understand motors from the perspective you guys do but I can tell you I had a civic with K20a2 motor that was WAY better than the F22. It had torque and it spun so freely. It was 229 whp with a conservative tune for endurance racing. The F22 is more dramatic with VTEC but feels sluggish in comparison. The K20 was pulling manic right into redline.
i love Honda motors. I raced that car for 2 years, did a couple years of DE and then recently sold it. It didn’t burn any oil and had no leaks. I can see why they stick K motors in all kinds of other make chassis.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 328
Likes: 16
i don’t know if I-VTEC matters.....but there is no comparison.
the Kmotor would be wonderful in the s2000 but we know it’s costly. I can’t imagine the lunacy of the K-Miata.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 547
Likes: 53
From: Milwaukee, WI
Most K-series fit pretty well in the S2000, there are plenty of them out there, and it is wonderful in the S2K 
. The K20C1 is such a different animal and makes things much more difficult to fit in the S2000 compared to traditional K.
. The K20C1 is such a different animal and makes things much more difficult to fit in the S2000 compared to traditional K.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 125
From: Scottsdale, Az
i had a 11lbs flywheel. No comparison. Have you driven a Kmitor with a few bolt ons? There is a reason the aerial atom, lotus, formula 3 race cars...etc use a K and not an F. My K motor had headers,,injectors, intake manifold (RBC). Stock flywheel. I find it has a MUCH broader powerband that doesn’t even need VTEC to be alive. The NA V8 of the 4-cylinders if you will.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 51
Haha, for real. I DD a 2007 Civic Si with the K20Z3 then I have the S2000, both have basically the same motor mods - intake / HFC / tune, and it bothers me that the Civic feels like it is probably quicker in a straight line. It also messes up your lizard brain since they pull and sound so similar.
i don’t understand motors from the perspective you guys do but I can tell you I had a civic with K20a2 motor that was WAY better than the F22. It had torque and it spun so freely. It was 229 whp with a conservative tune for endurance racing. The F22 is more dramatic with VTEC but feels sluggish in comparison. The K20 was pulling manic right into redline.
i love Honda motors. I raced that car for 2 years, did a couple years of DE and then recently sold it. It didn’t burn any oil and had no leaks. I can see why they stick K motors in all kinds of other make chassis.
The flywheel will be most noticeable when blipping the throttle on downshifts. The actual power consumed isn't that much, more at lower vehicle speeds (because acceleration is faster). But still, probably less than 10hp.
The K-Series and F-series (and the B-Series) are among the best high-performance engines. Along the lines of the small block Chevy which was a dominant engine for 40 years and is still widely used in racing. The big-block Chevy and Chrysler Hemi were distinguished for shorter periods. Because of there massive power costs were higher and applications fewer. NASCAR went to small blocks in 1972. Ford's small-block Cleveland engines were arguably the best of the small blocks, but never as widely used. A derived head by Australian firm CHI has been winner several times in the Engine Masters Challenge. The 2JZ-GTE is iconic...but much less common. The Cosworth DFV engine was used in Formula 1 from 1967 to 1985, with the last win in 1983.
Net the K-series and its F-series sibling are phenomenal engines. The K20C2 is related the way Piero "the unfortunate" de Medici is related to Lorenzo "the Magnificant" de Medici. Piero's cousin Giulio di Giuliano became Pope Clement VII who denied an annulment to Henry VIII. But that is a different story.
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
^^^ My previous post to the 8lb flywheel in the F22 you referenced wasn't made with a power increase as the primary motive, as there are many other easier bolts ons that would make same or more.The point was how it effects all other aspects of the engines character. If you ever get an opportunity to run a tuned f22 with an 8lb flywheel, I highly recommend it. You wont ever want to go back. The F22 loves to rev once you remove its chains and its very responsive from very low to high rpm.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 328
Likes: 16
^^^ My previous post to the 8lb flywheel in the F22 you referenced wasn't made with a power increase as the primary motive, as there are many other easier bolts ons that would make same or more.The point was how it effects all other aspects of the engines character. If you ever get an opportunity to run a tuned f22 with an 8lb flywheel, I highly recommend it. You wont ever want to go back. The F22 loves to rev once you remove its chains and its very responsive from very low to high rpm.