May 2010 Fastrack (S2000 to CSP)
The May Fastrack is out. There is a proposal to move the S2000, old Datsun Z-cars, and the E36/E46 M3 into CSP.
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
Originally Posted by Orthonormal,Apr 22 2010, 08:18 AM
The May Fastrack is out. There is a proposal to move the S2000, old Datsun Z-cars, and the E36/E46 M3 into CSP.
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
Dear SPAC, I'm writing to provide some input regarding the proposed move of the top 3 classes in SP. I like the intent, I really do, but I fear we might be approaching from the wrong angle.
Let me start at the S2000 vs Miata debate as many people think that the Honda will take over CSP. I do not think this will happen. A second gen Honda with all UD/BD allowances will probably end up in the low 2600's. My STR S2000 (MY06) weighs 2650 with the soft top, small battery, and every other allowance available in ST. The UD/BD allowance for the CR soft top removal will drop around 50lbs, but there is talk that the tonneau cover actually brings back another 20lbs or so. So most of the cars are going to be floating around in this region. My car makes around 230whp/160ftlbs on a Dynojet. I simply typed "Jenvey ITB S2000" into google and found multiple dyno plots that show increases of 30whp or more in the midrange with the addition of the ITB's - granted most of these are on a Dynapack. So I'm guessing a SP S2000 will make somewhere near 240-245whp + the additional power available from the lightened flywheel.
Is this enough to keep up with the top Miata's? I don't think so - the Honda will still be giving up 700lbs. The 285/295 18" Hoosiers are a significantly taller tire than the 275/15 on the Miata. So I don't think that the argument - "Well the Honda can just run bigger tires" is valid. There is no way someone will be able to get significant heat into a 315 Hoosier to make it work like the smaller 275 (see the BSP STi's at Heartland Park on 315's a few years ago, they found that going to the smaller 285 significantly increased performance).
But what if I'm wrong? What if the Honda ends up taking over the class? Is the SPAC ready to deal with the ramifications of the most popular SP class being upset?
So that brings me to my "suggested SP moves". What was wrong with BSP before the AWD cars? The class was well subscribed with the C4 Vette's, M3's (who are currently buried in every class we have available except for SM - discounting the real P and M classes of course), and S2000's. Throw in the RX-8 and 350z and you have a class that could be very fun and course design will probably play into what car wins on what day (similar to STR).
I think that moving the slower cars out of BSP might be the wrong philosophy, but I do think that moving the AWD cars to ASP could bury them behind the ground pounders (or if they are faster - do you want a to deal with a bunch of pissed off Corvette guys?). But you've got a bunch of "slower" cars in ASP right now that might fit perfectly with the AWD cars (as your proposal suggests with the move of the RX7/Porsches/MR2 Turbo to BSP).
SSP (or whatever you want to call it) - C5/C6, Viper, GT2, Ferrari, Loti
ASP - AWD Turbo, MR2 Turbo, RX7 Turbo, Porsche's
BSP - M3 E36/46, Datsun, S2000, RX-8, 350Z, C4
CSP - Existing
Let me start at the S2000 vs Miata debate as many people think that the Honda will take over CSP. I do not think this will happen. A second gen Honda with all UD/BD allowances will probably end up in the low 2600's. My STR S2000 (MY06) weighs 2650 with the soft top, small battery, and every other allowance available in ST. The UD/BD allowance for the CR soft top removal will drop around 50lbs, but there is talk that the tonneau cover actually brings back another 20lbs or so. So most of the cars are going to be floating around in this region. My car makes around 230whp/160ftlbs on a Dynojet. I simply typed "Jenvey ITB S2000" into google and found multiple dyno plots that show increases of 30whp or more in the midrange with the addition of the ITB's - granted most of these are on a Dynapack. So I'm guessing a SP S2000 will make somewhere near 240-245whp + the additional power available from the lightened flywheel.
Is this enough to keep up with the top Miata's? I don't think so - the Honda will still be giving up 700lbs. The 285/295 18" Hoosiers are a significantly taller tire than the 275/15 on the Miata. So I don't think that the argument - "Well the Honda can just run bigger tires" is valid. There is no way someone will be able to get significant heat into a 315 Hoosier to make it work like the smaller 275 (see the BSP STi's at Heartland Park on 315's a few years ago, they found that going to the smaller 285 significantly increased performance).
But what if I'm wrong? What if the Honda ends up taking over the class? Is the SPAC ready to deal with the ramifications of the most popular SP class being upset?
So that brings me to my "suggested SP moves". What was wrong with BSP before the AWD cars? The class was well subscribed with the C4 Vette's, M3's (who are currently buried in every class we have available except for SM - discounting the real P and M classes of course), and S2000's. Throw in the RX-8 and 350z and you have a class that could be very fun and course design will probably play into what car wins on what day (similar to STR).
I think that moving the slower cars out of BSP might be the wrong philosophy, but I do think that moving the AWD cars to ASP could bury them behind the ground pounders (or if they are faster - do you want a to deal with a bunch of pissed off Corvette guys?). But you've got a bunch of "slower" cars in ASP right now that might fit perfectly with the AWD cars (as your proposal suggests with the move of the RX7/Porsches/MR2 Turbo to BSP).
SSP (or whatever you want to call it) - C5/C6, Viper, GT2, Ferrari, Loti
ASP - AWD Turbo, MR2 Turbo, RX7 Turbo, Porsche's
BSP - M3 E36/46, Datsun, S2000, RX-8, 350Z, C4
CSP - Existing
Originally Posted by Orthonormal,Apr 22 2010, 07:18 AM
The May Fastrack is out. There is a proposal to move the S2000, old Datsun Z-cars, and the E36/E46 M3 into CSP.
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
I'm surprised nobody posted. Does anyone care?
i still think it's better for the s2k in csp than playing with the evos in bsp. or better yet, move the evos out of bsp and keep the s2k in.
either way, i am ok... who knows, i will see FP in the future
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Originally Posted by s2kennmark,Apr 23 2010, 03:09 AM
i do care haha .... im waiting for that updates
i still think it's better for the s2k in csp than playing with the evos in bsp. or better yet, move the evos out of bsp and keep the s2k in.
either way, i am ok... who knows, i will see FP in the future
i still think it's better for the s2k in csp than playing with the evos in bsp. or better yet, move the evos out of bsp and keep the s2k in.
either way, i am ok... who knows, i will see FP in the future

I care... but at the same time i don't... at least this year.
I took a pretty good stab at BSP this year with what i felt was a fairly "ok" prepared car, and wound up one spot outside the trophies... not bad, and i'm happy about it.
But on the BIG Lincoln course, there is simply no way the S2000 can hang in BSP.... On the tighter local courses that we run on here, the S2000 fares very well actually... but it simply doesn't have any legs to stretch.
Moving the S2000 to CSP isn't going to make a difference for the S2000, it'll still be getting killed Nationally... hell, the top two CSP cars would have been the top two BSP cars, even over the AWD boosted boys! Them CSP's be FAAAAAAST.
It'd be sweet if an allowable modification for a BSP non-turbo 4cyl car would be the allowance to install a turbo on a stock motor... but that'll never happen.
This year i'll be parking my car, and co-driving an STR car. At least there is VERY good and equal competition there.
I took a pretty good stab at BSP this year with what i felt was a fairly "ok" prepared car, and wound up one spot outside the trophies... not bad, and i'm happy about it.
But on the BIG Lincoln course, there is simply no way the S2000 can hang in BSP.... On the tighter local courses that we run on here, the S2000 fares very well actually... but it simply doesn't have any legs to stretch.
Moving the S2000 to CSP isn't going to make a difference for the S2000, it'll still be getting killed Nationally... hell, the top two CSP cars would have been the top two BSP cars, even over the AWD boosted boys! Them CSP's be FAAAAAAST.
It'd be sweet if an allowable modification for a BSP non-turbo 4cyl car would be the allowance to install a turbo on a stock motor... but that'll never happen.
This year i'll be parking my car, and co-driving an STR car. At least there is VERY good and equal competition there.
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