Opinions wanted autox set up
11-28-2017, 03:00 PM
#1
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Opinions wanted autox set up
Hey guys just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on the set up I have in mind for next years str autox season
first off I bought the car with some KSport coilovers with some 1000lb rear springs since he was into stance I guess he needed those. Who knows.
I did 5-6 events this year learned a lot and wanted to get a proper set up on the car and run a full season this coming year. I threw a alignment at the car and it helped out great but I’ll be changing out those rear springs and adding a front and possibly Miata rear sway bar. I’ll list out what I have in mind any thoughts and opinions are welcome.
Rpf1 18x9.5 (yes I know .5 to big for str,already on the car when bought)
federal 595rsrr (already on the car and used last season)
Alignment
front- 2.5 camber 0 toe caster 6.0
rear- 2.0 camber 1/4 toe
FSB- moddiction 3 way adjustable
RSB- possibly a Miata fsb fitted to the rear
Spring rate- front 800/ Rear 616
Thanks for reading any thoughts are welcomed!
first off I bought the car with some KSport coilovers with some 1000lb rear springs since he was into stance I guess he needed those. Who knows.
I did 5-6 events this year learned a lot and wanted to get a proper set up on the car and run a full season this coming year. I threw a alignment at the car and it helped out great but I’ll be changing out those rear springs and adding a front and possibly Miata rear sway bar. I’ll list out what I have in mind any thoughts and opinions are welcome.
Rpf1 18x9.5 (yes I know .5 to big for str,already on the car when bought)
federal 595rsrr (already on the car and used last season)
Alignment
front- 2.5 camber 0 toe caster 6.0
rear- 2.0 camber 1/4 toe
FSB- moddiction 3 way adjustable
RSB- possibly a Miata fsb fitted to the rear
Spring rate- front 800/ Rear 616
Thanks for reading any thoughts are welcomed!
11-29-2017, 07:46 AM
#4
Is federal 595 a 200 UTQG tire? It seems to be 140 according to my googling.. And yes you know that you are .5 too big for STR.. You can definitely run STR with these locally but why not just get a right set specifically for autox, or just race in the right class?
RE71r, BFG Rival's recommended for tires, 17*9 all around for wheels (PF01 is a good option).
The alignment looks good to me. AP1 does need a lot rear toe-in. However, if you run a extremely stiff front sway bar you might push like crazy, or not. It's your driving style and preference though.
Depending on your budget you can upgrade all mentioned above to better ones, or the best. Either way it won't block you from racing. Seat time is always #1.
Happy autocrossing!
RE71r, BFG Rival's recommended for tires, 17*9 all around for wheels (PF01 is a good option).
The alignment looks good to me. AP1 does need a lot rear toe-in. However, if you run a extremely stiff front sway bar you might push like crazy, or not. It's your driving style and preference though.
Depending on your budget you can upgrade all mentioned above to better ones, or the best. Either way it won't block you from racing. Seat time is always #1.
Happy autocrossing!
11-29-2017, 06:20 PM
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The car came with the rpf1s in a 9.5...as you said I can run with them at regional events so spending money on wheels when it can be spent elsewhere to upgrade insufficient stock parts seemed like the better option! Thanks for the input!
11-29-2017, 06:41 PM
#6
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Buy some stock 17x8.5's bore them out to 71mm, and wrap them in some 200 UTQG rubber (cheap solution and within rules, I like the Rival S 1.5). Sell the other set.
I would get a Karcepts rear bar over the Miata bar (preferably Karcepts front and rear) as it will allow you to tune it to your tastes (it can go softer or stiffer than the Miata bar).
Camber adjusters for the front and more camber front and back as mentioned.
Personal preference would be less of a split between the front and rear spring rates, but that is up to your driving style/preferences.
What I currently run: 2017 STR
I would get a Karcepts rear bar over the Miata bar (preferably Karcepts front and rear) as it will allow you to tune it to your tastes (it can go softer or stiffer than the Miata bar).
Camber adjusters for the front and more camber front and back as mentioned.
Personal preference would be less of a split between the front and rear spring rates, but that is up to your driving style/preferences.
What I currently run: 2017 STR
Last edited by Fokker; 11-29-2017 at 06:43 PM.
11-30-2017, 07:46 AM
#7
You might try running less rear toe-in. I hated running that much toe in my car (stock '01) on the street and and at the track. It was bad for absolutely everything: worse turn-in responsiveness, nonlinear handling, worse straight-line stability over bumps/undulations or in traction-challenged conditions, and horrendous tire wear rate.
I run 0.15° to 0.20° total rear toe-in (0.065" - 0.087", a quarter to a third of the oft-recommended 1/4"). Mucho better-o all around for me.
I run 0.15° to 0.20° total rear toe-in (0.065" - 0.087", a quarter to a third of the oft-recommended 1/4"). Mucho better-o all around for me.
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11-30-2017, 08:33 AM
#8
You might try running less rear toe-in. I hated running that much toe in my car (stock '01) on the street and and at the track. It was bad for absolutely everything: worse turn-in responsiveness, nonlinear handling, worse straight-line stability over bumps/undulations or in traction-challenged conditions, and horrendous tire wear rate.
I run 0.15° to 0.20° total rear toe-in (0.065" - 0.087", a quarter to a third of the oft-recommended 1/4"). Mucho better-o all around for me.
I run 0.15° to 0.20° total rear toe-in (0.065" - 0.087", a quarter to a third of the oft-recommended 1/4"). Mucho better-o all around for me.
That sure sounds like something else was going on, not just some rear toe.
Stick with 1/4 rear toe on an AP1 OP. I ran 1/4 on my AP1, and so have countless others. I had none of the odd handling characteristics described above. My car was also VERY easy on tires/no odd tire wear.
11-30-2017, 10:18 AM
#9
To get life out of rear tires I had alignment shop take out a ton of rear toe while keeping other alignment specs the same (zero front toe, -1.2 front camber, -2.2 rear camber). I asked for about half the original rear toe, or about 0.3° total, or 0.15° per side. Instead they gave me 0.15° total. Having heard about how the AP1 just NEEEDS a ton of rear toe, I was a little concerned but there was no time to change it before heading to the track. Lo and behold, handling was improved, more linear and predictable, better turn-in, no downsides whatsoever. And rear tire life more than doubled!
Then years later I did an unintended blind experiment. At the Mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was a total mess. Pointing left/right/left down the puddle-strewn straights, than resolutely understeering at turn-in >
Driving home in a downpour, car was all over the place, I had to drive 45mph while others were ~60 on the highway. Car would even dart left-right-left over bumps and undulations in the road. Dayum... Come to find out the rear toe had shifted to about 1° total. Granted that's a fair amount more than 1/4" (0.6°), but still, lesson reinforced: too much toe sucks...Another blind experiment with the 240Z, shop gave it 0.5° rear toe-in instead of the 0.2° asked for and the car went from being an absolute joy at the track to being an understeering pig. I *knew* something was wrong, and that was it...
Stick with 1/4 rear toe on an AP1 OP. I ran 1/4 on my AP1, and so have countless others. I had none of the odd handling characteristics described above. My car was also VERY easy on tires/no odd tire wear.
And philosophically, having tires work against each other constantly is a piss-poor use of them anyway, IMO...
My 0.02!
11-30-2017, 10:39 AM
#10
Nope, strictly rear toe-in. Firstly by design when I went with the 1/4" total that many insist on for the AP1 for my first track event with the car. 1st event Watkins Glen, handling a bit weird relative to my 240Z... After 2nd event, rears were corded in the middle :O
To get life out of rear tires I had alignment shop take out a ton of rear toe while keeping other alignment specs the same (zero front toe, -1.2 front camber, -2.2 rear camber). I asked for about half the original rear toe, or about 0.3° total, or 0.15° per side. Instead they gave me 0.15° total. Having heard about how the AP1 just NEEEDS a ton of rear toe, I was a little concerned but there was no time to change it before heading to the track. Lo and behold, handling was improved, more linear and predictable, better turn-in, no downsides whatsoever. And rear tire life more than doubled!
Then years later I did an unintended blind experiment. At the Mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was a total mess. Pointing left/right/left down the puddle-strewn straights, than resolutely understeering at turn-in > Driving home in a downpour, car was all over the place, I had to drive 45mph while others were ~60 on the highway. Car would even dart left-right-left over bumps and undulations in the road. Dayum... Come to find out the rear toe had shifted to about 1° total. Granted that's a fair amount more than 1/4" (0.6°), but still, lesson reinforced: too much toe sucks...
Another blind experiment with the 240Z, shop gave it 0.5° rear toe-in instead of the 0.2° asked for and the car went from being an absolute joy at the track to being an understeering pig. I *knew* something was wrong, and that was it...
All I can say is what I've experienced. A lot of rear toe-in is a band-aid that doesn't even do what it's supposed to on the AP1, it made mine *less* stable. I've only ever had negative experiences with rear toe on the high end, and never suffered any negative effects running minimal rear toe approaching zero sometimes.
And philosophically, having tires work against each other constantly is a piss-poor use of them anyway, IMO...
My 0.02!
To get life out of rear tires I had alignment shop take out a ton of rear toe while keeping other alignment specs the same (zero front toe, -1.2 front camber, -2.2 rear camber). I asked for about half the original rear toe, or about 0.3° total, or 0.15° per side. Instead they gave me 0.15° total. Having heard about how the AP1 just NEEEDS a ton of rear toe, I was a little concerned but there was no time to change it before heading to the track. Lo and behold, handling was improved, more linear and predictable, better turn-in, no downsides whatsoever. And rear tire life more than doubled!
Then years later I did an unintended blind experiment. At the Mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was a total mess. Pointing left/right/left down the puddle-strewn straights, than resolutely understeering at turn-in >
Driving home in a downpour, car was all over the place, I had to drive 45mph while others were ~60 on the highway. Car would even dart left-right-left over bumps and undulations in the road. Dayum... Come to find out the rear toe had shifted to about 1° total. Granted that's a fair amount more than 1/4" (0.6°), but still, lesson reinforced: too much toe sucks...Another blind experiment with the 240Z, shop gave it 0.5° rear toe-in instead of the 0.2° asked for and the car went from being an absolute joy at the track to being an understeering pig. I *knew* something was wrong, and that was it...
All I can say is what I've experienced. A lot of rear toe-in is a band-aid that doesn't even do what it's supposed to on the AP1, it made mine *less* stable. I've only ever had negative experiences with rear toe on the high end, and never suffered any negative effects running minimal rear toe approaching zero sometimes.
And philosophically, having tires work against each other constantly is a piss-poor use of them anyway, IMO...
My 0.02!
I respect your opinion. I was just stating mine, and mine were the exact opposite of what you described.
My experience is all street and autox based. I only had my AP1 on a track once. Other people I trust and are excellent at car setup have also ran 1/4 rear toe without the issues you describe.