Preparation for first track day
#12
Originally Posted by subtledreamer,Dec 10 2008, 09:29 AM
Thanks for the input guys I just ordered a set of Carbotech AX6 brake pads, hopefully they'll come in time. Also I am pretty set on the Dunlop Z1's.
Just a bump for more tire trailer input... then I'll be set
Just a bump for more tire trailer input... then I'll be set
#13
I think people give too much unnecessary info to NEW drivers about brakes and tires
I tracked my bone stock S2000 with possibly 15 events in many near Socal tracks like Streets of Willow Springs, Horse Thief Mile, Buttonwillow or Spring Mountain, on OEM RE050s or so so street tires
I went thru total 4~5 sets of used RE050s, or I used something that's under $400 a set to practice then I eventually started using TOP performace street tires AFTER I start modding my car
I occasionally use OEM brake pads when my "track pads" worn out, I believe OEM pads performed good on the track with OEM RE050s (Buttonwillow #13 = 2'10.1, SOWS = 1'30.3)
All I worry was bleeding my brake fluid and regular maintainance, and I was trouble free in all those track days, I didn't even bother to take out my spare tire, that's how chill I was tracking a bone stock S, I usually just drove my car there, put my helmet on and drive!
If you are new to this sport, save every penny to more seat time, gas and a lot of cheap practice tires!
I'm very confident I gave you the best advice how to start this sport!
btw, I have a lot of HK track buddies, I can introduce all these track junkies to you on 22nd!
I tracked my bone stock S2000 with possibly 15 events in many near Socal tracks like Streets of Willow Springs, Horse Thief Mile, Buttonwillow or Spring Mountain, on OEM RE050s or so so street tires
I went thru total 4~5 sets of used RE050s, or I used something that's under $400 a set to practice then I eventually started using TOP performace street tires AFTER I start modding my car
I occasionally use OEM brake pads when my "track pads" worn out, I believe OEM pads performed good on the track with OEM RE050s (Buttonwillow #13 = 2'10.1, SOWS = 1'30.3)
All I worry was bleeding my brake fluid and regular maintainance, and I was trouble free in all those track days, I didn't even bother to take out my spare tire, that's how chill I was tracking a bone stock S, I usually just drove my car there, put my helmet on and drive!
If you are new to this sport, save every penny to more seat time, gas and a lot of cheap practice tires!
I'm very confident I gave you the best advice how to start this sport!
btw, I have a lot of HK track buddies, I can introduce all these track junkies to you on 22nd!
#14
Jaku, I agree with the basic intent of your post, but not a lot of the specifics. For a first track day, he doesn't need to do anything other than listen to his instructor and have fun; a bone stock S2000 is fine for anyone's first track day, which I think is what Mike was saying.
But I don't agree that a bone stock S2000 is fine for 15 track days. The typical person's learning curve will put too much stress on stock brake fluid and pads; he/she may not discover that the fluid has boiled until he/she hits that braking zone at the end of the front straight, and there are no brakes. Which isn't worth the risk.
The newbie should pay attention to his/her car as he/she progresses in the first few track days. The stock pads may start wearing very quickly, which is both expensive and dangerous. I would recommend putting in DOT4 fluid by the second or third track day; better safe than sorry. Swapping in full track pads doesn't take long, and it is a very significant safety feature.
And, finally, I agree that street tires are a good thing for a lot of track days for a newbie, for a variety of reasons, but he/she shouldn't use the same ones he drives on, since track days trash tires pretty quickly, so that they won't be safe if it ever rains down there.
But I don't agree that a bone stock S2000 is fine for 15 track days. The typical person's learning curve will put too much stress on stock brake fluid and pads; he/she may not discover that the fluid has boiled until he/she hits that braking zone at the end of the front straight, and there are no brakes. Which isn't worth the risk.
The newbie should pay attention to his/her car as he/she progresses in the first few track days. The stock pads may start wearing very quickly, which is both expensive and dangerous. I would recommend putting in DOT4 fluid by the second or third track day; better safe than sorry. Swapping in full track pads doesn't take long, and it is a very significant safety feature.
And, finally, I agree that street tires are a good thing for a lot of track days for a newbie, for a variety of reasons, but he/she shouldn't use the same ones he drives on, since track days trash tires pretty quickly, so that they won't be safe if it ever rains down there.
#15
not only socal rarely rains but we have very predictable weather!
i still have to say a well maintained bone stock S2000 is fine for HPDE type track days
when i said well maintained is high boiling point brake fluid like Motul 600 (not just regular DOT4) + enough amount of tires and brakes are good to go
i daily drive, massive canyon/track drive on same wheels, tires and brakes, street tires last very long, that's why we use them, my Federals last 8 track days!
i was also going to say bring extra set of wheels n tires are nice but not necessary or woth the extra work at all, i rarely see street S2000/Miata guys do that!
i brought this up mainly cos OP is on his budget
trailer = $270
16" tires = $506
16" wheels = $150
$920ish extra money is not worth it unless one plans to do frequent track duty in a long run!
i still have to say a well maintained bone stock S2000 is fine for HPDE type track days
when i said well maintained is high boiling point brake fluid like Motul 600 (not just regular DOT4) + enough amount of tires and brakes are good to go
i daily drive, massive canyon/track drive on same wheels, tires and brakes, street tires last very long, that's why we use them, my Federals last 8 track days!
i was also going to say bring extra set of wheels n tires are nice but not necessary or woth the extra work at all, i rarely see street S2000/Miata guys do that!
i brought this up mainly cos OP is on his budget
trailer = $270
16" tires = $506
16" wheels = $150
$920ish extra money is not worth it unless one plans to do frequent track duty in a long run!
#16
It all depends on the individual circumstances. However, you are the only person I have ever heard suggest the the OEM brake pads (which I think are great for the street) should be used after your first one or two track days.
#17
Again, I disagree.
If you want to use street tires forever, that's fine; that's not a safety matter, assuming you're not trying to drive in rain on trashed tires (street or track).
Brakes, and spares, are safety matters.
Bringing spares, after the first few track days, is, to me, far more advisable that you seem to be saying.
The first time you kill a tire, rotor or brake pad during a track day, and can't get home, you'll wish you had brought spares. I've corded tires any number of times during track days (whether your tires last 20 days or 2, they will cord at some point; wouldn't you like to be able to drive them until that point, and still get home?); cracked a few rotors, and run my brake pads almost down to the backing plate; it's comforting to know that I can handle all such routine matters at the track, continue my track day, and still get home. All with a little Harbor Freight trailer. And note that the cost of the spare tires is not "extra," but only a time-value-of-money item.
I agree that "bone stock except for full race pads and good DOT4 fluid" will be fine forever for an S2000 at track days (well, if you don't ever want the fun of driving on R compound tires, and ignoring the overriding--for me--safety matter of the roll hoops being inadequate in case I rolled my car, which caused me to stop tracking my S2000). Bringing a tire trailer will save you time and money in the long run.
If you want to use street tires forever, that's fine; that's not a safety matter, assuming you're not trying to drive in rain on trashed tires (street or track).
Brakes, and spares, are safety matters.
Bringing spares, after the first few track days, is, to me, far more advisable that you seem to be saying.
The first time you kill a tire, rotor or brake pad during a track day, and can't get home, you'll wish you had brought spares. I've corded tires any number of times during track days (whether your tires last 20 days or 2, they will cord at some point; wouldn't you like to be able to drive them until that point, and still get home?); cracked a few rotors, and run my brake pads almost down to the backing plate; it's comforting to know that I can handle all such routine matters at the track, continue my track day, and still get home. All with a little Harbor Freight trailer. And note that the cost of the spare tires is not "extra," but only a time-value-of-money item.
I agree that "bone stock except for full race pads and good DOT4 fluid" will be fine forever for an S2000 at track days (well, if you don't ever want the fun of driving on R compound tires, and ignoring the overriding--for me--safety matter of the roll hoops being inadequate in case I rolled my car, which caused me to stop tracking my S2000). Bringing a tire trailer will save you time and money in the long run.
#18
Originally Posted by Jaku,Dec 11 2008, 06:41 AM
I think people give too much unnecessary info to NEW drivers about brakes and tires
Stock s2k is perfectly fine for track driving. This guy isn't going in a time attack or something. I don't know this track but OEM pads on re050's are fine. OEM fluid matches this set up pretty well, but if it's old you might as well replace to ATE or something.
First hand experience has taught me that when the re050's start to get greasy is when the pads do as well or shortly there after.
However, this could be argued completely opposite if the OP had posted his previous track experience (in other cars, if any). But no other track experience, the OEM brake set up and KWv3's is fine. Invest your $ into seat time and instruction first!
#19
Cording should not be an issue with street tires. They should be retired long before that point. If you run street tires until you see cords, then you are a fool anyway.
All things being equal, it's much preferable to have spares at the track. But all things are not equal, and I don't want to discourage just driving to the track on the tires and brakes you plan to run. That's "old school" sports car driving, and it has a lot of things going for it.
All things being equal, it's much preferable to have spares at the track. But all things are not equal, and I don't want to discourage just driving to the track on the tires and brakes you plan to run. That's "old school" sports car driving, and it has a lot of things going for it.
#20
A little off topic, but in my S (without trailer), I can fit a full size spare spare, spare rotors and pads, two helmets, enough tools to be able to repair anything that is repairable trackside, 2.5ton floor jack, first aid kit, overnight bag for 2, and a passenger, snacks, water, and oil. Unless you want to drive up on separate set of tires (not sure why you would), you don't need a trailer.
edit: and two jackstands
edit: and two jackstands