As I'd mentioned in prior thread, put my AP2 alignment at the UK spec...-1 and -2 camber f&r, caster 6.0 and toe in 1.85 mm rear, 0 front. Running Azenis 615's, 215/45 and 255/40 on stock rims.

We were on the big track at Willow and it was pretty cool outside. Little wind...very nice weather. First few laps got a feel for things and then put my foot in it. Lapping quite a few seconds faster than I had previously, and the car felt great. Confidence level up, more laps in (30 minute sessions), tires got greasy . The alignment felt great until the tires got too hot, then it was anybody's guess where the thing would go. Kinda scary really, and definitely lost my nerve . btw..checked pressures after lapping and was around 35 all around, starting at about 29.

Does this sound like more a tire issue, or still need to play with alignment. Someone at the track with Honda experience (he claims) said it really needs a spoiler to keep the rear down at speed. While it was oversteering with the greasy tires, wonder if more rear camber would help? Or????

Thanks,

Mark

 

Driver issue. Some tires get greasy when they get above their optimum temp range. At that point, you have to slow down or pit.

You said it felt great before the grease. Either change tire brand and re-evaluate your set up or understand the happy tire temp range by using a pyrometer in the pits. Data.... it's good.

 

or cheaper a big patch of chalk up the side wall and over on the the thread. This will tell you which tire is struggling when you look at how at how far the chalk has rubbed off.

 

RA1s, probably.

Define "mostly track", though.

 

yeah the azenis sticks until it gets to operating temp then as it heats up more it gets greasy. not a very good track tire IMO

 

All street tires will get greasy to some degree on a track. Knowing how to adjust the driving is part learning to drive the car on the edge.

 

This is why you don't listen to random advice from "someone at the track."

The little arrows on the sides of street tires are to indicate the location of the wear bars on the tread face. Those are the bars that become flush with the tread surface when the tire is considered to be worn out and no longer meeting legal specs for tread depth. This measurement is legislated as 2/32" in the US.

That being said, turn 3 is tricky with a marked camber change as you transition to track out up the hill. This can get the rear end loose and you need to anticipate that. Azenis are notorious for overheating and getting greasy so the combination of those two conditions are a recipe for spin.

Bottom line, don't take advice from random people. This was a driver issue though

 

Mark, did you track the stock RE050's before switching to the 615's? I'd be interested in your comments if you did. I track the stock tires. They also get slippery after 6 or 7 laps.

 

So you felt the 615's had a lot more grip but were slipperier when hot?

I run with Speedventures as do many others on this forum. We'll be at Streets and Big Willow in January. Come on out. If you do, there's a very good chance that, "some guy at the track" will be one of the guru's (myself explicitly excluded) on this forum.

 

Check out Speedventures.net for the dates. Streets is a fun track and much lower speeds. A good place to slide around on street tires, greasy tires, whatever.

IMO, less tire at the beginning of your track-day obsession is a good idea. You reach the limits of traction sooner which allows you to get a feel for the car at safer speeds. R-compounds are definately much faster but for more experienced drivers. They give less warning at the limit and the limits are quite high on race rubber.

You don't need new tires, just more track time. Hope to see you out there.

Tim