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Where are you looking? The NASA TT and Time Attack guys beat Corvettes and Porsches all the damn time. You don't see S2000s in the "professional" series because the car is 10 years old. The S2000 along with the E36/E46 M3s and Corvettes can be made to compete in damn near any time trials/attack class or racing class with any "amateur" organization such as NASA, Gridlife, GTA, and SCCA.
Isn't TT set for equal weight to power ratios with lots of modification factors for equal competition? Are they beating equally well prepared Corvettes and Porsches because the S2000 is inherently superior? In 2017 NASA championship the S2000 was only in ST4, won in the east, a Corvette won in the west. Five cars in the east, 14 in the west, with S2000s 8th and last.
I think the S2000 is a great car. Given the right rules and the right budget, I'm sure it can be a competitive race car. However, its strongest hand seems to be track day and light competition where no car is prepared to the rules and the driver's main goal is to have fun and often drive the car home.
Originally Posted by miamirice
As DavidNJ said, a lot of the sponsorship will drive what direction teams/drivers go. I think if you are a driver and want to be signed then Global MX-5 is the place to be.
Regarding chasing Dollars: NASA at COTA expects to run 170 spec Miatas this year at the nationals! Toyo prize money (just Toyo) will pay out:
1st - $80,000
2nd- $15,000
3rd - $10,000
that attracts the talented.
The MX-5 Global Cup is now part of the Road to Indy, 4 of its 6 races are run in the days before an Indycar road race weekend. Each weekend is 2 races, so maybe it is 12 races? The winners have gotten packages that let them race the following year. None has advanced far to the best of my knowledge.
The 2006 winner of the first Spec Miata SCCA National Championship had his 2007 MX-5 Cup ride subsidized by Mazda. His father is the evangelist for Aim Sports in the US. He finished second in the MX-5 Cup, but that was not enough for continued support. He now races stadium off-road trucks.
The 2018 Global MX-5 Cup has had 2 events, 4 races. 28 cars have won points.
One of the posters here was in a Nissan/Playstation Grand Turismo contest where the winner got a pro ride. This was no ordinary poster. He had finished second in 3 consecutive SCCA STR autocross national championships, losing by a combined total of 1/4 second. Ouch! He won the next year. STR was the most competitive class in SCCA autocross drawing over 50 cars at the national championship. He made the top 5 in the contest and then they cut him. I don't think it was about his driving. I saw the show videos and IMHO he was the fastest and most mature drive in the contest by a bit.
Formula 4 USA Championship had 30 or so cars in each race last year. Last year's winner is now in USF2000, the first leg of the Road to Indy. I believe he is self funded.
To look at the people who are viewed as future stars they have one thing in comment: they dominated a highly competitive race series...sometimes also bringing mega-dollars to the table. Often they have a parent who was a driver and helped pave the way.
The current example is Robert Wickens. He won the Formula BMW USA series in 2006, was second in GP3 in 2010, won Formula Renault 3.5 in 2011...drivers behind him include Daniel Ricciardo, Alexander Rossi, Brendan Hartley, and Jean-Eric Vergne . He raced the next 6 years in the DTM championship. This year he was one of several rookies in Indycar. He won the pole and nearly race of the first event. Since then he has a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th before finishing 9th at Indy. He is currently 8th in the standings. He is a star because of his Indy results.
There is no magical path in pro-racing, and fewer that pay an income. To become a Randy Pobst or equivalent you need to be very quick, consistent, and easy on machinery on your way up the ladder. And then it is iffy.
The S2000 is apparently a great track day car and IMHO one of the best street sports cars,
Where are you looking? The NASA TT and Time Attack guys beat Corvettes and Porsches all the damn time. You don't see S2000s in the "professional" series because the car is 10 years old. The S2000 along with the E36/E46 M3s and Corvettes can be made to compete in damn near any time trials/attack class or racing class with any "amateur" organization such as NASA, Gridlife, GTA, and SCCA.
This ^
Here's 18 S2000 entries that is on the competitive level and not just HPDE.
Here's 18 S2000 entries that is on the competitive level and not just HPDE.
You've left off a few. How about Chris #333 in TT3 and Samed #732 in TT5.
The S2000 has proven, with some mild modifications, to be a reliable track day car. But is it racing when there are 3 cars in your class of wildly different levels of preparation?
This thread started talking about 'high-level' competition and then talked about the driver advancing to high-level competition. It is unlikely that anyone who will ever be on the starting grid in F1, NASCAR, or IndyCar or their feeder series ever spent significant time behind the wheel of an S2000 on a road course. And that doesn't count the various IMSA series (the pack is pretty tight in 488 Challenge), in Britain (where an LS9 powered S2000 was teased a year ago by a team from Crete), Germany, France, Italy, Japan, etc.
The video posted in this thread is of Sandro Espinosa in NASA Spec E30. He gained fame and millions of views after his pole sitting time in the NASA Eastern Championships was disallowed on post-qualifying inspection. Starting from the back of a 39-car field, a pushed his way to 3rd place; after post-race disqualifications, he won! As a result he was invited to the Western Championships against a strong field on a track he had never run on. The video is of that run where he qualified 5th and won being in race long fender-to-fender battles. From what I gather on the Spec E30 Facebook page, he is still in Spec E30.
You've left off a few. How about Chris #333 in TT3 and Samed #732 in TT5.
The S2000 has proven, with some mild modifications, to be a reliable track day car. But is it racing when there are 3 cars in your class of wildly different levels of preparation?
This thread started talking about 'high-level' competition and then talked about the driver advancing to high-level competition. It is unlikely that anyone who will ever be on the starting grid in F1, NASCAR, or IndyCar or their feeder series ever spent significant time behind the wheel of an S2000 on a road course. And that doesn't count the various IMSA series (the pack is pretty tight in 488 Challenge), in Britain (where an LS9 powered S2000 was teased a year ago by a team from Crete), Germany, France, Italy, Japan, etc.
The video posted in this thread is of Sandro Espinosa in NASA Spec E30. He gained fame and millions of views after his pole sitting time in the NASA Eastern Championships was disallowed on post-qualifying inspection. Starting from the back of a 39-car field, a pushed his way to 3rd place; after post-race disqualifications, he won! As a result he was invited to the Western Championships against a strong field on a track he had never run on. The video is of that run where he qualified 5th and won being in race long fender-to-fender battles. From what I gather on the Spec E30 Facebook page, he is still in Spec E30.
Chase knows that I am running my Evo this year and plan to sell the #333 S2000, but it is certainly a competitive TT3 car and on E85 is a competitive Gridlife/GTA Street Modified class car. Joel Morrison will be running the same turbo kit and competing in NASA TT3 and TT2 this year with his S2000. I raced against Sandro in my SpecE30. He is an amazing driver and an amazing man that still races SpecE30. SpecE30 drivers moving on to professional racing include Mike Skeen and Johan Schwartz.
The S2000 when well prepared is a very capable car. When properly drive and setup, they do very well in amateur W2W and TT. I've spend tons of track hours turning knobs, changing spring rates, sway bar settings and shock valving. Since its not as common as your typical E36, E46s, etc, it still surprises many people.
For those in the northeast/mid-atlantic area and familiar with some of the tracks here, you can see how impressive some of the lap times (for sale gallery) are relative to what other chassis' are doing. Keep in mind if the the car was on Hoosiers (R7s) which is what most other classes run, those times on average would be about 2 seconds faster.
Isn't TT set for equal weight to power ratios with lots of modification factors for equal competition? Are they beating equally well prepared Corvettes and Porsches because the S2000 is inherently superior? In 2017 NASA championship the S2000 was only in ST4, won in the east, a Corvette won in the west. Five cars in the east, 14 in the west, with S2000s 8th and last.
I think the S2000 is a great car. Given the right rules and the right budget, I'm sure it can be a competitive race car. However, its strongest hand seems to be track day and light competition where no car is prepared to the rules and the driver's main goal is to have fun and often drive the car home.
The goal of TT and ST classes is parity across platforms, leaving the race wins up to the best driver. Yes, s2000's are beating equally well prepared makes and losing to cars with more prep, development, dollars, setup, or driver talent. I won ST4 at east coast champs last year and was much faster than the Corvette but would have easily lost to the Miata had he not broken. The Corvette is a regular ST4 car that was prepped to the max, but the driver hadn't ever been to Sebring before. The Miata was a spec miata car with the Mazdaspeed turbo motor and made 190hp/200tq from something like 3000rpm to redline. That car was driven by a local who has hundreds of days at Sebring and nearly won the spec miata championship in his other car. My car isn't even a fully maxed H1 car and literally all I did was swap RR's for R7's. The Corvette held me up for 3/4 of the race and when I was finally able to get by his via racecraft, I started gapping him by 2s a lap. West coast was won by a guy who knows how to prep a car and is a fantastic driver, nobody was surprised when he won.
Bottom line here is that vehicle prep and talent vary wildly, even within a mature series. I could very easily drop north of $20k in parts alone on my car in ST4 and still not max out the class. Racing is expensive and some people choose not to (or can't afford to) engage in a war of the wallet.
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
The MX-5 Global Cup is now part of the Road to Indy, 4 of its 6 races are run in the days before an Indycar road race weekend. Each weekend is 2 races, so maybe it is 12 races? The winners have gotten packages that let them race the following year. None has advanced far to the best of my knowledge.
The 2006 winner of the first Spec Miata SCCA National Championship had his 2007 MX-5 Cup ride subsidized by Mazda. His father is the evangelist for Aim Sports in the US. He finished second in the MX-5 Cup, but that was not enough for continued support. He now races stadium off-road trucks.
The 2018 Global MX-5 Cup has had 2 events, 4 races. 28 cars have won points.
One of the posters here was in a Nissan/Playstation Grand Turismo contest where the winner got a pro ride. This was no ordinary poster. He had finished second in 3 consecutive SCCA STR autocross national championships, losing by a combined total of 1/4 second. Ouch! He won the next year. STR was the most competitive class in SCCA autocross drawing over 50 cars at the national championship. He made the top 5 in the contest and then they cut him. I don't think it was about his driving. I saw the show videos and IMHO he was the fastest and most mature drive in the contest by a bit.
Formula 4 USA Championship had 30 or so cars in each race last year. Last year's winner is now in USF2000, the first leg of the Road to Indy. I believe he is self funded.
To look at the people who are viewed as future stars they have one thing in comment: they dominated a highly competitive race series...sometimes also bringing mega-dollars to the table. Often they have a parent who was a driver and helped pave the way.
The current example is Robert Wickens. He won the Formula BMW USA series in 2006, was second in GP3 in 2010, won Formula Renault 3.5 in 2011...drivers behind him include Daniel Ricciardo, Alexander Rossi, Brendan Hartley, and Jean-Eric Vergne . He raced the next 6 years in the DTM championship. This year he was one of several rookies in Indycar. He won the pole and nearly race of the first event. Since then he has a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th before finishing 9th at Indy. He is currently 8th in the standings. He is a star because of his Indy results.
There is no magical path in pro-racing, and fewer that pay an income. To become a Randy Pobst or equivalent you need to be very quick, consistent, and easy on machinery on your way up the ladder. And then it is iffy.
The S2000 is apparently a great track day car and IMHO one of the best street sports cars,
The Mazda Road to Indy or Road to 24 programs award a set dollar amount in scholarships to the season champion. How those racers choose to spend those dollars the following season are up to them but as mentioned above, racing is expensive. Exponentially so when you get to the Pro level. A single season of GMX5 will run from $80-120k, depending on if you're towing in your own trailer and wrenching yourself or if you choose and arrive and drive scenario. Oh and on top of that, you have to buy the car first. Look to at a minimum triple those costs in a move to PWC or IMSA, if not more. That someone won a scholarship one year and didn't the next only means that someone else won that championship and the funds that come with it. Past success in racing is no guarantee of future success and to think otherwise is asinine. The overwhelming majority of people at the PWC/IMSA/WEC/DTM/F1 level brought significant personal money to the table and those who didn't are exceedingly rare, or brought sponsorship money instead. I'd venture a guess that every pro racer has spent their own funds at some point in their career and those with bigger wallets are much likely to go further or stay longer.
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how few s2000's were produced over the years and that it's been out of production for several years now, both of which are critical to ongoing success at any level of motorsport. When I can find several hundred MX5's to rebuild a spec miata but a 100k mile F22 is going for $3500 - if you can even find one - it's no wonder the car isn't nearly as common. To declare that the s2000 is limited to being a track day or street car is applying correlation with causation. Ultimately the choice of platform is dictated by the results you want to achieve. If your goal is a factory ride in the top tier of motorsports, it makes sense to get in a series like spec miata, formula xyz, etc that has more competition and a clearer path to exposure. I race a s2000 because I always wanted one when I was in high school. Grew up and bought one. Did a track weekend and got hooked. Things snowballed. If I wanted to spend $100k a year in the hopes that I'd get a fully funded ride some day or better yet, a funded ride with enough income to replace my current salary, I'd start with GMX5 and see where that went. Thing is, I have lots of fun and a decent amount of success spending a fraction of that.
The goal of TT and ST classes is parity across platforms, leaving the race wins up to the best driver. Yes, s2000's are beating equally well prepared makes and losing to cars with more prep, development, dollars, setup, or driver talent. I won ST4 at east coast champs last year and was much faster than the Corvette but would have easily lost to the Miata had he not broken. The Corvette is a regular ST4 car that was prepped to the max, but the driver hadn't ever been to Sebring before. The Miata was a spec miata car with the Mazdaspeed turbo motor and made 190hp/200tq from something like 3000rpm to redline. That car was driven by a local who has hundreds of days at Sebring and nearly won the spec miata championship in his other car. My car isn't even a fully maxed H1 car and literally all I did was swap RR's for R7's. The Corvette held me up for 3/4 of the race and when I was finally able to get by his via racecraft, I started gapping him by 2s a lap. West coast was won by a guy who knows how to prep a car and is a fantastic driver, nobody was surprised when he won.
Bottom line here is that vehicle prep and talent vary wildly, even within a mature series. I could very easily drop north of $20k in parts alone on my car in ST4 and still not max out the class. Racing is expensive and some people choose not to (or can't afford to) engage in a war of the wallet.
The Mazda Road to Indy or Road to 24 programs award a set dollar amount in scholarships to the season champion. How those racers choose to spend those dollars the following season are up to them but as mentioned above, racing is expensive. Exponentially so when you get to the Pro level. A single season of GMX5 will run from $80-120k, depending on if you're towing in your own trailer and wrenching yourself or if you choose and arrive and drive scenario. Oh and on top of that, you have to buy the car first. Look to at a minimum triple those costs in a move to PWC or IMSA, if not more. That someone won a scholarship one year and didn't the next only means that someone else won that championship and the funds that come with it. Past success in racing is no guarantee of future success and to think otherwise is asinine. The overwhelming majority of people at the PWC/IMSA/WEC/DTM/F1 level brought significant personal money to the table and those who didn't are exceedingly rare, or brought sponsorship money instead. I'd venture a guess that every pro racer has spent their own funds at some point in their career and those with bigger wallets are much likely to go further or stay longer.
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how few s2000's were produced over the years and that it's been out of production for several years now, both of which are critical to ongoing success at any level of motorsport. When I can find several hundred MX5's to rebuild a spec miata but a 100k mile F22 is going for $3500 - if you can even find one - it's no wonder the car isn't nearly as common. To declare that the s2000 is limited to being a track day or street car is applying correlation with causation. Ultimately the choice of platform is dictated by the results you want to achieve. If your goal is a factory ride in the top tier of motorsports, it makes sense to get in a series like spec miata, formula xyz, etc that has more competition and a clearer path to exposure. I race a s2000 because I always wanted one when I was in high school. Grew up and bought one. Did a track weekend and got hooked. Things snowballed. If I wanted to spend $100k a year in the hopes that I'd get a fully funded ride some day or better yet, a funded ride with enough income to replace my current salary, I'd start with GMX5 and see where that went. Thing is, I have lots of fun and a decent amount of success spending a fraction of that.
At the NASA east coast championship, the top 4 American Iron cars (there were 10) were within 0.24 seconds of each other. There were 5 cars in ST4. Congratulations on your win. The to 4 cars were separated by 2.3 seconds.
You could be in a nationally competitive Spec Racer Ford 3 for about $30k. 60 cars showed up for the Runoffs. 41 raced for 4 race positions in the feature race.Then 40 raced in the feature. 46 cars qualified with 2.3 seconds of the pole.
Spec E30 at the NASA championship had over 30 cars, but the gaps were bigger because of clear differences in preparation. A nationally competitive car is about $20k, but they fold like paper mache in a crash.
The S2000 has no class where it is the natural winner. In every class, including ST4, another brand can be made faster for the same money. That doesn't mean the S2000 isn't fun. It doesn't mean someone will prep another car to make it faster. But they could.
At the NASA east coast championship, the top 4 American Iron cars (there were 10) were within 0.24 seconds of each other. There were 5 cars in ST4. Congratulations on your win. The to 4 cars were separated by 2.3 seconds.
You could be in a nationally competitive Spec Racer Ford 3 for about $30k. 60 cars showed up for the Runoffs. 41 raced for 4 race positions in the feature race.Then 40 raced in the feature. 46 cars qualified with 2.3 seconds of the pole.
Spec E30 at the NASA championship had over 30 cars, but the gaps were bigger because of clear differences in preparation. A nationally competitive car is about $20k, but they fold like paper mache in a crash.
The S2000 has no class where it is the natural winner. In every class, including ST4, another brand can be made faster for the same money. That doesn't mean the S2000 isn't fun. It doesn't mean someone will prep another car to make it faster. But they could.
I fail to see your point other than claiming the s2000 has no class where it's the "natural winner", but that's entire idea behind mixed class racing. If the rules are set correctly it absolutely should come down to vehicle prep and driver skill. Where is a Spec Racer Ford the "natural winner" other than in SRF? Same question for a Miata. Or E30.
Not sure where ur looking but the S2000 is every where in time attack in Cali. An s2k holds the 4th or 5th fastest time around buttonwillow raceway aswell. The top fuel s2k holds a record in Suzuka circuit and in Fuji circuit. Unless they are already beaten.
05-31-2018, 09:07 PM
