User 121020

'00 S2000, STR prepped, ~10% daily use. It seems more road time traveling to events...

One option that was not on the ECU poll question - full take back of ECU rule, i.e., no ECU allowances. I don't know how this would affect the mx5 vs. s2000 situation, but it would certainly help out the AP1s because the AP2s/CRs wouldn't be able to increase their rev limit.

<-- selfish, I know

glagola1

Yeah, I don't think there's any way that the community would suffer a full ECU take back. ST has been able to tune ECUs from the get go.

User 121020

I know it's not likely, which is why I asked for the "full ECU tuning" in my letter to the STAC.

Oh well, I'll just keep working on the driver mod and tinkering with STR modifications.

PedalFaster

You guys arguing for update / backdate are just asking to be murdered by an NA Miata running an NC or Mazdaspeed Miata motor...

whitt1

Quit complaining about the car's weight, my CR probably weighs more than most S2000s because I'm a big guy.
I've lived with a 100lb handicap for years.At least regular S2000 drivers can raise their tops and turn on AC.
Which is a very big advantage at Blytheville.

daverx7

You are correct, but that's assuming if they were put on the same line.

-D

///MIKE

It's no different than now... If a delete exists it exists.

Regardles, doesn't matter to me. I don't have a dog in this fight anymore.

imstimpy

I've seen some big guys win some events, obviously handicapped in weight. I've also seen some cars run half a tank of fuel versus others at a full tank, again showing a disparity in weight. While I can feel a passenger in my car, or rather, when I remove a passenger, I might expect to see .3-.5s time drop. If I'm lucky, I see the time. As often as not, I change something on course and finish at the same time as before. Given the weight swing in fuel levels, driver sizes, tire selection, suspension setup, platform differences and drivers themselves I think we may be hard-pressed to say Jimmy Joe-Bob won because they had the lighter car. Obviously if you take the same driver and put him in two cars built exactly the same sans a 100lb difference, and give him enough runs to eliminate the noise, the lighter car is faster. Since that will never happen during competition, we are all pissing in the wind.

My co-driver and I have been to the same driving schools, done the same number of events, and have driven in the same cars going on our fifth season. While we have finished within 0.001s many times, we have also been off from one another by as much as a second in the same car on the same course at the same time. Admittedly, we aren't machines like Braun but few are.

Well said, Bob Tunnell.

IntegraR0064

As I said in a PM to Marc, I think it would have been great if we had come up with an easy solution to handicap the CR delete to be like other AP2's. It would have been great for the class, and would have made it much harder for people to have excuses based on their car. It seems like all the other cars are in the same ballpark so handicapping the CR down to the same level makes sense so all are the same competitiveness. So I think the discussion was good. But, the discussion came to the conclusion that there's no good way to do that at this point. Therefore, it is what it is and I'm gonna continue racing my daily driven '06 and not worry about the CR anymore. The gap is not so much that it's insurmountable, not even close. However, if I get beat by .05 seconds by a built CR with similar to me weight driver, I'll know that I drove slightly faster that day but having the right car setup is part of the equation so the CR driver still won fair and square so he/she deserves the win, deserves congratulations, and deserves me not being an ass and going on a diatribe about how I would have won if not for my car. Plus as others have mentioned- they'll probably be really hot and woozy and not thinking real clearly, while I'm cool and collected, so I shouldn't anger them, haha.

I do think having A/C is very important, and I think having cars that can compete that are decent daily drivers is important to this class. Hopefully it will not become spec CR class, but it doesn't seem likely that will happen so I'm not worried about it.

I am a little worried that the ECU rule will flip flop the AP1 and AP2, since the AP2 is heavier, but:
a) Most likely they'll end up within driver noise of each other since one's lighter but one has more displacement.
b) Even if the AP1 ends up significantly better than AP2, I can sell my AP2 and get an AP1 and it's not a big deal. This is not like the CR where a CR is not practical for me because it needs to be daily driven

So I'm in support of opening up ECUs. I do not think we should disallow ECU tuning - I would just be riding my rev limiter constantly making the AP2 not really work.

sirbunz

Here will be my CR delete handicap, run stock seats and keep the heavy sway bars on ... or find a way to keep 50lbs of heavier parts on

With all the fears over 50lbs (technically 39lbs), we will have a gentlemens agreement to keep on some of the weight with obvious parts. This way, if we ever win, there won't be any questioning. I hope to get some cars together at nationals on the scales to document the weight differences further. My CR will be close to stock class weight anyways for this year.