View Poll Results: When is a weight difference significant?
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll
SCCA Solo - STR Rules Discussion
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 570
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by oinojo' timestamp='1405644021' post='23248750
[quote name='Random1' timestamp='1329559121' post='21426727']
[quote name='oinojo' timestamp='1329512154' post='21425137']
It is an emissions device. Can not remove. The heat from the coolant helps suspend the blowby being reintroduced into the intake tract.
[quote name='oinojo' timestamp='1329512154' post='21425137']
It is an emissions device. Can not remove. The heat from the coolant helps suspend the blowby being reintroduced into the intake tract.
A breather tube allows fresh air to flow into the engine and it is picked off before the throttle body which is part of the intake. So now the question is can you replace the vacuum and coolant lines with other tubing (rubber/silicone)? If you read the rules (see Stock and ST references below) I would argue that the K&N tubing are reasonable replacements for the OEM breather, vacuum, and coolant lines which provide no performance increase or alteration to function.
Rule 3.10 G covers the oil catch can allowance which usually replaces/significantly lengthens the PCV tubing and adds the can. I think this is a good example of an allowance that is relative to this discussion by analogy. In other words if they allow this modification for Stock and ST classes a breather tube change would have no more significant an impact on function or performance.
Rule 3.10 J covers silicone hose replacement. This is directly relative to the breather and vacuum hose tubing. I would also argue that the rubber tube for the coolant would fit here within reason. The word "silicone" in this rule should probably be replaced with "similar tubing (i.e. silicone)" to allow reasonable replacements like what may be found at an auto parts store.
Rule 4.10 C covers intake, PCV, etc.
In case there is some technicality here (I am wrong), has anyone installed the K&N without removing the metal piping? At first glance it looks like it may be possible if a 90 degree elbow is added at B-1 in the second diagram below.
S2000 Breather/PCV Flow
S2000 Part Reference - see #3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the relative Stock Class 2012 rule wording for reference.
13.10 ENGINE AND DRIVE TRAIN
G. The installation of water expansion tanks is allowed. The installation
of oil catch tanks is allowed provided the function of the PCV system
is not altered.
J. Silicone replacement hoses are permitted as alternate components
provided they meet the requirements of Section 13.0 with regard to
size, shape, location, and performance equivalence. Replacement
induction system air intake hoses must also match the standard part
in stiffness, contour, and internal wall texture.
Here is the relative ST Class 2012 rule wording for reference.
14.10 ENGINE AND DRIVETRAIN
C. The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet may be
modified or replaced. The engine inlet is the throttle body, carburetor,
compressor inlet, or intake manifold, whichever comes first. The
existing structure of the car may not be modified for the passage of
ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet. Holes may be drilled
for mounting. Emissions or engine management components in the
air intake system, such as a PCV valve, or mass airflow sensor, may
not be removed, modified, or replaced, and must retain their original
function along the flow path.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going back to this. Here is the clarification:
Street Touring
#14084 Breather Tube Clarification
There are no provisions in the the ST rules for removing coolant hard lines or removing/substituting hood props
[/quote]
What is a "coolant hard line?" I would interpret the metal part in question as a removable bracket (as its primary purpose is to keep this area from being a mess/cluster) and the actual parts through the TB and IM as unmovable parts. If not, this is yet another silly move if the SCCA intends to keep from using an easy "bolt on" part that provides replacement parts providing no performance advantage for the pieces it replaces of interferes with. These technicalities are getting ridiculous...
-Marc
[/quote]
13.0 specifies that standard part specifications must be met when replacing; I'd be surprised if you could find an alternate breather pipe outside of the dealership. I think the hose replacement ruling (13.10.J) is for similar types of hoses (metal for metal, or flexible for flexible), if not specifically addressed elsewhere (such as brake lines). Since there is no specific line stating we can replace a heavier metal line with a lighter flexible line, I've chosen to plumb the breather pipe into the engine bay.
My coolant hard-line continues to function as designed, though I've extended the soft line by an inch. The breather pipe is bypassed entirely in favor of alternate routing for my catch-can.
Prior to the catch-can install, the breather pipe didn't actually fit properly beneath the hood.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,744
Likes: 31
From: Nevada
does anyone know if ASM Gt strut bar is class legal?? It says 2 and 3 point bars may be substituted or added,...but is this a 4 point since it attaches in 4 places 
http://www.gotuning.com/product_info...roducts_id=111
http://www.gotuning.com/product_info...roducts_id=111
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
Not legal. We can only add a 2-point strut bar. We can't even add a 3-point strut bar since the S2000 doesn't come with one.
Note how it does not say "add" under 3 point bar.
14.G.2. A triangulated (3-point) strut bar may be removed, modified, or
substituted; substitution may be with either a triangulated or a
2-point strut bar. The connection to the chassis (e.g., firewall,
bulkhead) must be in the standard location.
substituted; substitution may be with either a triangulated or a
2-point strut bar. The connection to the chassis (e.g., firewall,
bulkhead) must be in the standard location.
does anyone know if ASM Gt strut bar is class legal?? It says 2 and 3 point bars may be substituted or added,...but is this a 4 point since it attaches in 4 places
http://www.gotuning.com/product_info...roducts_id=111
http://www.gotuning.com/product_info...roducts_id=111
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 71
Likes: 1
I am starting to gather parts to replace all worn suspension items on my S2000.
I already have lower camber joints installed.
Can I also run offset upper control arm bushings and be STR legal?
From what I read in the rules, I cannot install both lower camber joints and upper control arms with camber adjustment but I am not sure of the legality of running offset upper control arm bushings (Origin Fabrication) in combination with my lower camber joints.
I already have lower camber joints installed.
Can I also run offset upper control arm bushings and be STR legal?
From what I read in the rules, I cannot install both lower camber joints and upper control arms with camber adjustment but I am not sure of the legality of running offset upper control arm bushings (Origin Fabrication) in combination with my lower camber joints.
Last edited by exigex; Jul 2, 2018 at 02:38 PM.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: Central Ar.
Welcome to str!
From page 73 of the rule book:
H. Camber kits (also known as camber compensators) may be installed. These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts (includ- ing ball joints) that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective length of a control arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is allowed. The following restrictions apply:
1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multi-link suspen- sion) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.
2. On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjust- ment as allowed by Sections 14.8.B, C, or F may be used, but NOT both.
3. On swing or trailing arm suspensions, the main arms may not be modi- fied or replaced, but lateral locating links/arms may be modified or re- placed.
4. Front wheel drive (FWD) cars with rear beam axles may use shims be- tween the rear axle and hubs.
5. The replacement arms or mounts must attach to the original standard mounting points. All bushings must meet the requirements of Section 14.8.B. Intermediate mounting points (e.g., shock/spring mounts) may not be moved or relocated on the arm, except as incidental to the cam- ber adjustment. The knuckle/bearing housing/spindle assembly can- not be modified or replaced.
6. Changes in suspension geometry are not allowed except as incidental to the effective arm length change.
From page 73 of the rule book:
H. Camber kits (also known as camber compensators) may be installed. These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts (includ- ing ball joints) that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective length of a control arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is allowed. The following restrictions apply:
1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multi-link suspen- sion) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.
2. On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjust- ment as allowed by Sections 14.8.B, C, or F may be used, but NOT both.
3. On swing or trailing arm suspensions, the main arms may not be modi- fied or replaced, but lateral locating links/arms may be modified or re- placed.
4. Front wheel drive (FWD) cars with rear beam axles may use shims be- tween the rear axle and hubs.
5. The replacement arms or mounts must attach to the original standard mounting points. All bushings must meet the requirements of Section 14.8.B. Intermediate mounting points (e.g., shock/spring mounts) may not be moved or relocated on the arm, except as incidental to the cam- ber adjustment. The knuckle/bearing housing/spindle assembly can- not be modified or replaced.
6. Changes in suspension geometry are not allowed except as incidental to the effective arm length change.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: Central Ar.
Damn I hate this board style.
So I’d say no not legal to do both. And, although I can’t put my finger on it, it has been reasoned out in one of the str threads that the offset bushings are not legal with any other means of camber mods. If it’s camber you want you can get more than -4* with the spc offset upper ball joint alone, once lowered of course, and they reduce the need to roll the fenders.
These days I doubt anyone will care what you do on that due to the addition of the Nd to the class.
So I’d say no not legal to do both. And, although I can’t put my finger on it, it has been reasoned out in one of the str threads that the offset bushings are not legal with any other means of camber mods. If it’s camber you want you can get more than -4* with the spc offset upper ball joint alone, once lowered of course, and they reduce the need to roll the fenders.
These days I doubt anyone will care what you do on that due to the addition of the Nd to the class.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 71
Likes: 1
Damn I hate this board style.
So I’d say no not legal to do both. And, although I can’t put my finger on it, it has been reasoned out in one of the str threads that the offset bushings are not legal with any other means of camber mods. If it’s camber you want you can get more than -4* with the spc offset upper ball joint alone, once lowered of course, and they reduce the need to roll the fenders.
These days I doubt anyone will care what you do on that due to the addition of the Nd to the class.
So I’d say no not legal to do both. And, although I can’t put my finger on it, it has been reasoned out in one of the str threads that the offset bushings are not legal with any other means of camber mods. If it’s camber you want you can get more than -4* with the spc offset upper ball joint alone, once lowered of course, and they reduce the need to roll the fenders.
These days I doubt anyone will care what you do on that due to the addition of the Nd to the class.
I am trying to build this S2000 for str autox and also time trials/attack.
Right now I am refreshing the car and adding safety equipment.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post