I'm trying to price out an S2K build for the STR class in autocross. I was reading through the STR thread and it seems like everyone there has Motons. That.....is insane.

I might be able to afford Motons in a few years, but definitely not now. I'd like to get some input on how much that'll actually affect me in terms of times.

From what I've read, I'm thinking revalved koni yellows would be good for me, possibly with turning them into a double adjustable.

So let's say, for sake of argument, that I'm an awesome consistent driver. Pick a random driver that won their class at nationals a few years in a row and pretend I'm him. (FYI this is not at all accurate, but for the sake of argument ). Let's also say that I have all the major go fast parts I need to do well in this class, including whatever the absolute best shocks are.

Let's say, with that setup, that I run a normal average autocross course, make no mistakes, and get a time of exactly 60 seconds. Now, if I was in an alternate reality where I had some lower priced options for the shocks only, and everything else was the same as reality #1....what do you think that'll actually mean in terms of time? If I had, say, revalved koni yellows, do you think that'll be a tenth slower? two tenths? a half second? 20 seconds ?

I'm guessing it'll matter if you're on a really shock-challenging course like one with tons of bumps. On the worst case course you've ever been on, what do you think it'll be worth then?

Of course I'm not looking for exact answers here but I think it will be an interesting discussion.

Also while we're talking about it, it sounds like the revalved konis are the best shock option for $1000-$1500?

Thanks for any input!

 

I thought the best option was Bilstein as far as price performance but that's only my opinion.

There are many people running all kinds of shocks in the str thread. Koni's, Penskes, Bilsteins, SRC's, Motons and I'm sure I missed a few. There's tons of excellent info in that thread.

 

Yeah, as I said in my other thread, that is a great thread and I've gotten through a lot of it but I think separate topics need to be broken out. I've spent many, many hours in that thread and still haven't gotten through it. Discussion in there is all over the place so it's very hard to find specific information.

 

I just went through this, and I went around and around for sometime trying to decide what is best. It seems in most classes there is always several people in trophy spots that have more affordable shocks, and the high end shocks do not gaurantee a win. It's hard to put a number on time, maybe someone with more back to back experience can chime in, but when you can more easily drive at the limits your consistency goes up, and both the number and the size of errors go down. How significant depends on the course, driver, and the gravitational pull of the moon.

I really wanted Konis as well, but I was quoted around $1800 for Koni yellows revalved and converted to doubles. You are then left with a twin tube design, which isn't terrible but there are better options, and that price is pushing really close to those other options.

The KW V3 looked promissing, good monotube design, and there are a few vendors on here that will sell them at a really good deal. But then I talk to and read about these dampers can't really handle much more than 650ish lbs/in rates without being revalved. I didn't want to spend that much on coilovers, just to ship them back out to be revalved to run the rates I wanted.

The Bilstein PSS9s seem like a great deal, and they ride really well (I have a friend with them but I haven't personally driven, only riden) and can handle decent rates without having to revalve. It seems like most everyone agrees the adjusters suck, and are more or less on/off. I don't know why I never persued this more.

Penskes - I looked a little, but they seemed way out of my price range. It seems like this is the most customizeable damper, which different valving options available. I felt like I didn't know enough about dampers yet to go down this route. I'll get there eventually, but not yet. These also seem to offer a huge adjustment range.


Tein SCR - I've driven/riden in some crap cars with Teins other coilovers, so I found it hard to even think about spending that kind of money on those.

Moton - I looked a little, but they seemed way out of my price range. Good monotube setup, simple, proven preformance, huge adjustment range.

AST - I looked a lot at these, because a local friend just became a rep. They seem to have great shocks, and selection to choose what fits your needs. They also have top hats available. Having a local shop to revalve was a great plus as well. However, options quickly put you up there with the pricest of them.

In the end, I found a great deal on a lightly used set of Motons, and they weren't too far off in price from several of my other options. I figure this would be my best bet, because I do several track events a year, and I autocross regularly with the hope of one day becoming competitive. Will I be able to take full advantage of these - no. Will these make me a rockstar - no. Will these allow me to tune my car through all of the developement stage, and eventually take my car to whatever future developement I want to go - yes.

I'm not saying this is the route everyone should go, in fact I don't think this is the route I should have gone, but I did and I'm anxiously waiting to through them on the car and verify I made the right desicion.



PS - I wish I would have bought a set of the TC Klines when they clearanced them out last year, that was by far the best shock/dollar for this class in my opinion.

 

Wow thanks for the informative post!

How did you go about buying the shocks? That would be something I'd be interested in pursuing, but I feel like they wouldn't go on sale very often and might be hard to find. Are the Motons S2000 specific or do the ones from other cars work?

And if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the used ones?

 

I would have purchased those as well but I was a day late and a dollar short.

btw KWV3's are a twin tube design.

 

Plenty of very fast drivers out there on SRCs. I'm not one of them, but they seem to get the job done for me.

 

You need S2000-specific Motons, since shock length and the way the bottom of the shock attaches to the A-arm aren't standardized across cars.

There have been a few sets for sale here recently in the $3000 - $3500 range. I think there may still be a set available in the R&C For Sale subforum right now.

Semi-relevant anecdote... Years ago I had a B Stock S2000 with single adjustable JRZs and off-the-shelf valving. At a practice, Jason Saini, then the reigning national champion, did some back-to-back runs in his car and mine. Jason's car had double-adjustable Motons that he'd had revalved to his specifications. Off-the-shelf JRZs aren't exactly bad shocks, but Jason's shocks represented the state of the art in custom shocks at the time. Keep in mind as well that dampers matter more in Stock class cars than they do in more prepared classes since they're compensating for soft stock springs.

Anyway, after taking a run or two in my car, Jason said that my car felt softer and floppier than his did. Despite that, he was able to turn the same times in my car that he was running in his own. He had to do several more runs in his own car afterward before he got a faster run.

The lesson I took away from this exercise was that, while fancy shocks help, they're not a magic speed secret. I'd buy the best shocks that fit your budget, then stop worrying about what could have been shock-wise and just focus on driving the wheels off of the car.

 

Ah ok, what I meant to ask was more if there were other cars that it also fit, of course it would not fit all cars. But anyway that answers the question.

Also, that's some very good input on Jason Saini running your car, that helps.

 

Yep. This is 100% correct. I haven't found much time at all but driver confidence and comfort on the street are the main benefits of the Motons... well, that and the huge range of adjustment can cure certain ails in quick time if you need to.