Stock seats be modded to fit a 5/6 pt harness?
06-29-2006, 10:42 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Jun 29 2006, 10:10 PM
Of course it is a bad idea. In a crash, the front cushion of the seat would compress so much it would be useless.
If you want to, cut a slit in the bottom of the seat and run the straps up through it. But I wouldn't recommend using a stock seat with harnesses anyway. Find a race seat that fits you and the car.
If you want to, cut a slit in the bottom of the seat and run the straps up through it. But I wouldn't recommend using a stock seat with harnesses anyway. Find a race seat that fits you and the car.
06-30-2006, 05:23 AM
#12
For me the primary benefit of the racing seat is not having to fight to keep in place when I'm driving. I'd get that same benefit with a racing seat and factory belt. I know I wouldn't be as safe in a crash but, I'm doing HPDE's not real racing so, the chance of crashing is LESS than in a real race.
It's just a matter of managing the danger. If you're willing to HPDE with factory seats and belts then you're probably willing to use a racing seat and factory belt. You still have the airbags worse comes to worse.
From my research, I think a harness with no or poor subs is more dangerous than a factory belt with factory seat. The factory belts don't have belts that pull the lap belt up into your belly in an accident like the harness. A race seat with factory belts, as long as the belts can be pulled tight is no worse than running a factory seat but, is better for keeping you in place while driving.
So, if you can't hook the harness belts up the way they should be, I probably wouldn't use a harness.
It's just a matter of managing the danger. If you're willing to HPDE with factory seats and belts then you're probably willing to use a racing seat and factory belt. You still have the airbags worse comes to worse.
From my research, I think a harness with no or poor subs is more dangerous than a factory belt with factory seat. The factory belts don't have belts that pull the lap belt up into your belly in an accident like the harness. A race seat with factory belts, as long as the belts can be pulled tight is no worse than running a factory seat but, is better for keeping you in place while driving.
So, if you can't hook the harness belts up the way they should be, I probably wouldn't use a harness.
06-30-2006, 05:33 AM
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The stock seats work fine. Run the sholder straps throught the head rest hole. HANS wants those straps as close as one can get them. SCCA says to put the sub straps on the seat and sit on them. This will trap the lower body and prevent a rise and/or submarining of the lower body. The sub straps you will be sitting on should be mounted to the same bolts your waist belts are hooked up to. I use the stock mounting holes. Are seats are recaros' allthough I would like race seats the stockers will and can do for now.
06-30-2006, 06:44 AM
#16
"SCCA says to put the sub straps on the seat and sit on them. This will trap the lower body and prevent a rise and/or submarining of the lower body."
I consider this to be bad, perhaps dangerous mis-information. In an accident you're going to have that sub belt smashing into your balls with all of your mass. The harness, as it stretches will try to bend you backwards because you're sub and harness are both mounted behind you.
Read the Shroth PDF I posted. The guys who MAKE the harnesses are the ones you should be listening too.
"5. The single anti submarine strap of the five point system shall
be attached to the floor structure and have a metal to metal
connection with the single release common to the seat belt and
shoulder harness.
....
7. Each seat (lap) and shoulder belt of the harness (5, 6, or 7 points)
shall have an individual mounting point (i.e. 2 for seat belt and
2 for shoulder belt minimum). Six or seven point system antisubmarine
straps may share a mounting point with one or both
seat (lap) belt(s). The minimum acceptable bolts used in the
mounting of all belts and harnesses is SAE Grade 5. Where
possible, seat belt, shoulder harness, and anti submarine strap(s)
should be mounted to the roll structure or frame of the car.
Where this is not possible, large diameter mounting washers or
equivalent should be used to spread the load. Bolting through
aluminum floor panels, etc., is not acceptable."
I'm not seeing anything about sitting on them. Mounting them and running them under the seat though the sub hole in the seat may be what they mean. They do say this is the "minimum" required features.
I consider this to be bad, perhaps dangerous mis-information. In an accident you're going to have that sub belt smashing into your balls with all of your mass. The harness, as it stretches will try to bend you backwards because you're sub and harness are both mounted behind you.
Read the Shroth PDF I posted. The guys who MAKE the harnesses are the ones you should be listening too.
"5. The single anti submarine strap of the five point system shall
be attached to the floor structure and have a metal to metal
connection with the single release common to the seat belt and
shoulder harness.
....
7. Each seat (lap) and shoulder belt of the harness (5, 6, or 7 points)
shall have an individual mounting point (i.e. 2 for seat belt and
2 for shoulder belt minimum). Six or seven point system antisubmarine
straps may share a mounting point with one or both
seat (lap) belt(s). The minimum acceptable bolts used in the
mounting of all belts and harnesses is SAE Grade 5. Where
possible, seat belt, shoulder harness, and anti submarine strap(s)
should be mounted to the roll structure or frame of the car.
Where this is not possible, large diameter mounting washers or
equivalent should be used to spread the load. Bolting through
aluminum floor panels, etc., is not acceptable."
I'm not seeing anything about sitting on them. Mounting them and running them under the seat though the sub hole in the seat may be what they mean. They do say this is the "minimum" required features.
06-30-2006, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by payneinthe,Jun 29 2006, 04:03 PM
I am also looking for a seat that'll accomodate a 38-40" waist. Whatever Rylan's using should be fine for us. That whale has gotta be at least 400lbs.
38-40" 
fat bastard who are you to call anyone a whale 
Besides, Ry's been low 200's ever since his HC training started. What does your cornerweight scale say? "Get the F*** off me Moby?"
BBR,
You can use the SPG XL, its just not going to fit with the stock door panel unless you trim it as RL mentioned. Ry's seat rail is not adjustable so it probably sits a bit lower too.
The Kirkey seats are function, just not very comfortable. For a dual purpose car they aren't a good idea, and personally I find the lateral supports to rub in the axial area.
I wouldn't modify the stock seats to take a harness. To do it correctly would cost as much as a race seat. I saw some guy running the shoulder harness straps through the headrest hole-bad idea.
You would think Honda would give us harness ready seats like the Recaro's the Evo comes with.
06-30-2006, 08:42 AM
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Hey Asura,
I dunno if you remember me but you sold me the hot lap timer a while back. I've been having problems with it. It seems that the lap timer will only record one lap and and not receive any other signals after that. So by the time I get off the track, the timer only shows 1 lap with 7 mins on the timer. Am I setting it the timer wrong?
I have had this happen to me twice already. The first time I used it was at infineon and I thought it may have been becuase there was probably so many transmitter out there, but this happened again at T-hill, and I am quite sure there was only one transmitter out there. I reseted my timer each time I came on for another session.
As for the SPG XL, am I right in understand that you are saying that no trimming needs to be done to seat, just the door panel? Also do you know if the SPG XL will fit in the S with an adjustable rail?
Thanks, any help would be appreciated.
I dunno if you remember me but you sold me the hot lap timer a while back. I've been having problems with it. It seems that the lap timer will only record one lap and and not receive any other signals after that. So by the time I get off the track, the timer only shows 1 lap with 7 mins on the timer. Am I setting it the timer wrong?
I have had this happen to me twice already. The first time I used it was at infineon and I thought it may have been becuase there was probably so many transmitter out there, but this happened again at T-hill, and I am quite sure there was only one transmitter out there. I reseted my timer each time I came on for another session.
As for the SPG XL, am I right in understand that you are saying that no trimming needs to be done to seat, just the door panel? Also do you know if the SPG XL will fit in the S with an adjustable rail?
Thanks, any help would be appreciated.
07-01-2006, 03:32 AM
#20
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Here's a link to an FAQ that I wrote on harness installation. It covers most of the questions raised in this thread.
In summary, it is not safe to use a multi-point harness with the stock seat. It is easier, safer and less expensive (if you factor in the ruined factory seat) to buy and install a racing seat with correct mounting rails. Aluminum seats like the Kirkey and Ultrashield are effective and light, but they must be mounted with a back brace. It is easier to use a composite seat if you want an adjustable seating position.
Also, it is not safe to install a harness without some form of aftermarket attachment for the shoulder straps. A harness bar is your best option for this purpose.
With an upright seating position (like in the S2000), sub-straps should be routed downward through the seat and securely mounted to the floor pan with appropriate backing plates.
In summary, it is not safe to use a multi-point harness with the stock seat. It is easier, safer and less expensive (if you factor in the ruined factory seat) to buy and install a racing seat with correct mounting rails. Aluminum seats like the Kirkey and Ultrashield are effective and light, but they must be mounted with a back brace. It is easier to use a composite seat if you want an adjustable seating position.
Also, it is not safe to install a harness without some form of aftermarket attachment for the shoulder straps. A harness bar is your best option for this purpose.
With an upright seating position (like in the S2000), sub-straps should be routed downward through the seat and securely mounted to the floor pan with appropriate backing plates.