View Poll Results: What front sway bar do you use?
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STR Prep - Sway Bars
09-22-2013, 10:31 AM
#421
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This topic is interesting and depending on who you listen to different people believe in opposite ways to set up a car.
A) "soft springs" and big bars
- good mechanical grip
- use bars to speed up transitioning speeds and speed up loading up the tires
B) stiff springs and little bars
- use of stiff springs and low speed compression to speed up transitioning speeds and speed up loading up the tires
- meh mechanical grip (lateral) (right?)
to start, I'm not anyone special in the autox world so take what I say with a grain of salt. On my ap1 I really liked the 900F/800R setup with a big front bar, the car felt good on every surface I ran on. On my CR I copied the same setting, changed to rivals and it was fail city. I think the tire change and rear geometry made a difference. With the ap1 it benefited from having stiff rear springs to minimize the rear toe change during bumps. With the CR I ended up going half the compression and changed the rear toe to about half also. The car felt good on local none concrete sites and did well. The bad came into play when the car touched concrete, it was way loose.
For me, I think I'm going to revamp my setup and start "fresh." The reason for this is I honestly think I can drive the RTR CR just as fast or almost just as fast as I can my STR car. Ive tested this a couple times. The softer sprung RTR car is so forgiving and easy to drive relative to the STR car. In the STR car it's fast (locally) but one mistake and your done.
- over the winter I'm going to put my 800 rear springs on the front, put 600 springs on the rear. (or maybe go 900F/700R or 600R?) input?
- set all my shocks to the middle settings on both compression/rebound
- set my camber to -2.5 all the way around
- solid bar on the front to full soft and .095 rear bar to middle setting (want a easy go to fix if surface makes the car loose/pushy)
then just test and make changes depending on how it feels. That way I'm going softer or atleast going softer in the rear to help with the car being loose and improve lateral grip. Changing to softer bar setting (and springs) to help with the cars "nervousness."
input?
As for Walker, not sure why everyone is so secretive about his setup, when the greats of B-stock figured out the "magical" setup they shared to everyone to level the playing field. Clearly Jesus is fast, that dude kills it. Just wish I knew the exact setup for a starting place with this car.
A) "soft springs" and big bars
- good mechanical grip
- use bars to speed up transitioning speeds and speed up loading up the tires
B) stiff springs and little bars
- use of stiff springs and low speed compression to speed up transitioning speeds and speed up loading up the tires
- meh mechanical grip (lateral) (right?)
to start, I'm not anyone special in the autox world so take what I say with a grain of salt. On my ap1 I really liked the 900F/800R setup with a big front bar, the car felt good on every surface I ran on. On my CR I copied the same setting, changed to rivals and it was fail city. I think the tire change and rear geometry made a difference. With the ap1 it benefited from having stiff rear springs to minimize the rear toe change during bumps. With the CR I ended up going half the compression and changed the rear toe to about half also. The car felt good on local none concrete sites and did well. The bad came into play when the car touched concrete, it was way loose.
For me, I think I'm going to revamp my setup and start "fresh." The reason for this is I honestly think I can drive the RTR CR just as fast or almost just as fast as I can my STR car. Ive tested this a couple times. The softer sprung RTR car is so forgiving and easy to drive relative to the STR car. In the STR car it's fast (locally) but one mistake and your done.
- over the winter I'm going to put my 800 rear springs on the front, put 600 springs on the rear. (or maybe go 900F/700R or 600R?) input?
- set all my shocks to the middle settings on both compression/rebound
- set my camber to -2.5 all the way around
- solid bar on the front to full soft and .095 rear bar to middle setting (want a easy go to fix if surface makes the car loose/pushy)
then just test and make changes depending on how it feels. That way I'm going softer or atleast going softer in the rear to help with the car being loose and improve lateral grip. Changing to softer bar setting (and springs) to help with the cars "nervousness."
input?
As for Walker, not sure why everyone is so secretive about his setup, when the greats of B-stock figured out the "magical" setup they shared to everyone to level the playing field. Clearly Jesus is fast, that dude kills it. Just wish I knew the exact setup for a starting place with this car.
.Second, I'm rather surprised you'd intentionally build a car you think is harder to drive than an RTR S2000. That should be pretty indicative of a setup problem, IMO.
Thirdly, there are about 500 public setups on here for you to copy. There are a billion ways to skin this cat. Copying setups simply doesn't work, unless you compete on identical lots, with the same driving style, and EVERY part is identical between the cars. Minor rake changes can turn a car from MX-5 easy to drive to undriveable. Here's how to set up a car, simply. Pick what you don't like about it, then change the problem point. If you think it's skittish, not enough mechanical grip, then soften the car up. If it's slow in transitions, stiffen it up (yes, there's a compromise point here), or play with shocks to get it to do what you want it do. Of all of the top S2000s I know about, no two are on identical, or what I'd even consider *really* close setups. Just set it up for yourself.
09-22-2013, 10:49 AM
#422
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Thanks man! Yea the black car was on point besides gearing. Gotta figure this ap2 thing out. I haven't drove the RTR car since last OCT and hopped in it and crushed pax for the day by .4 seconds on my very first run with cold tires and a passenger. I really believe a softer sprung car is just easier to drive. Oo well, I'll figure it out next season
09-23-2013, 02:52 AM
#423
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Looks like that sparked quite the conversation. That's a lot of good information, thanks! I think that reinforces what I've been leaning towards (adding *ideally* the smallest gendron rear bar). We have the OS Giken diff, and we're running *I think* 800F/650R, and with what looks like slightly more aggressive toe settings than most, the car still feels a little pushy. We also have the 1.25" solid gendron front bar set on full soft.
06-30-2014, 11:32 AM
#424
Registered User
So I recently purchased and installed a shiny new set of Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, and found on one side the bolt for the Saner endlinks where they go thru the bar hit the shock body. Has anyone used the McMaster Carr parts and had them clear the larger shock bodies of aftermarket shocks?
08-07-2014, 06:56 AM
#425
Dumb question time....
So I just got the Cusco front sway bar so I can run a square set up and have a shot at actually putting down a decent time.
My question is, do I need to preload the suspension when I attach the bar to the factory endlinks? My understanding is that this practice is to determine the proper length for adjustable endlinks, so I don't need to do this with factory endlinks and the Cusco bar.
So I just got the Cusco front sway bar so I can run a square set up and have a shot at actually putting down a decent time.
My question is, do I need to preload the suspension when I attach the bar to the factory endlinks? My understanding is that this practice is to determine the proper length for adjustable endlinks, so I don't need to do this with factory endlinks and the Cusco bar.
08-07-2014, 08:19 AM
#426
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So I recently purchased and installed a shiny new set of Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, and found on one side the bolt for the Saner endlinks where they go thru the bar hit the shock body. Has anyone used the McMaster Carr parts and had them clear the larger shock bodies of aftermarket shocks?
Picture of my Saner... quite dirty after a couple years of use
Saner male shank rod end vs. stud-type male rod end - much more clearance
Tapping the female rod end from Saner kit
New rod end installed, point of view skews the space savings a bit
08-07-2014, 08:48 AM
#428
Dumb question time....
So I just got the Cusco front sway bar so I can run a square set up and have a shot at actually putting down a decent time.
My question is, do I need to preload the suspension when I attach the bar to the factory endlinks? My understanding is that this practice is to determine the proper length for adjustable endlinks, so I don't need to do this with factory endlinks and the Cusco bar.
So I just got the Cusco front sway bar so I can run a square set up and have a shot at actually putting down a decent time.
My question is, do I need to preload the suspension when I attach the bar to the factory endlinks? My understanding is that this practice is to determine the proper length for adjustable endlinks, so I don't need to do this with factory endlinks and the Cusco bar.
08-07-2014, 09:12 AM
#429
Originally Posted by KrazyKarl' timestamp='1404156748' post='23224365
So I recently purchased and installed a shiny new set of Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, and found on one side the bolt for the Saner endlinks where they go thru the bar hit the shock body. Has anyone used the McMaster Carr parts and had them clear the larger shock bodies of aftermarket shocks?
08-07-2014, 10:50 AM
#430
Registered User
Yes, ... back in my Saner days, I used 7/16"-20 "High-performance lubrication free" ball joint linkages from McMaster Carr. I think they were P/N 60745K651. I tapped & helicoiled my Saner bar so I could just thread the rod ends into the bar and not have to worry about thinning the bar to allow me to use a washer/nut on the backside. I then used the female shank portion of the Saner rod ends and tapped them to accept the 7/16"-20 right hand threads. If you try to use the 7/16"-20 rod ends in the lower location, you'll have to open up the hole in the control arm a bit to accept the larger stud diameter.