Is there a solution to decrease rearend twitch?
10-07-2004, 08:16 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RandyP,Oct 7 2004, 06:01 PM
You could always add race tires to the rear and leave the street tires on the front. This will also cure the twitchyness.
10-07-2004, 08:19 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by glagola1,Oct 7 2004, 11:13 PM
It doesn't work like that. The car is capable of more grip (speed) but if the back end is coming aournd that means you can't go any faster with out losing control. Add the swaybar, and suddenly you can go faster with out losing control. You can raise the speed since the four wheels are more balanced.
Go ahead and spend some big bucks on bigger wheels and tires but unless you go to R compounds you're getting minimal gains compared to simply balancing the car front to rear with a sway bar.
If all you want to do is putz around on the street and do a few HPDE's a year a sway bar and an alignment will do wonders for daily driving and dialing in your handling at the track. I just can't stand to see people upgrading the S when it kicks so much ass in stock form.
Go ahead and spend some big bucks on bigger wheels and tires but unless you go to R compounds you're getting minimal gains compared to simply balancing the car front to rear with a sway bar.
If all you want to do is putz around on the street and do a few HPDE's a year a sway bar and an alignment will do wonders for daily driving and dialing in your handling at the track. I just can't stand to see people upgrading the S when it kicks so much ass in stock form.
in stock form is already kick azz, but I still need to add camber plates on the front
so I won't chew through a set of street tires in 3 days worth of DE. =D
Anyway, just soliciting ideas since I haven't been back to this board for quite
a while. If I do get an S2k, I'd likely drive it stock form for many months before
I can appreciate any minor mods, such as sways etc. And we'll go from there.
So, glagola, are you not a supporter of the bumpsteer kit that is available for
the S2k? Comments on that?
Thanks!
Jimmy
10-07-2004, 09:58 PM
#14
Registered User
Originally Posted by Jimmy325,Oct 7 2004, 10:38 PM
Nobody,
Thanks for the reply.
What wheels allowed you to run such wide tires? Do you get any fender rubbing
with the tirewall?
I've been thinking maybe the Spoon black wheels SW388, but those don't seem
to be quite WIDE enough to accomodate such wide tires as you have listed.
Also, what were some of the main differences in feel and handling that you noticed
when you went from just springs to the Tien coilover suspension?
Thanks!
Jimmy
Thanks for the reply.
What wheels allowed you to run such wide tires? Do you get any fender rubbing
with the tirewall?
I've been thinking maybe the Spoon black wheels SW388, but those don't seem
to be quite WIDE enough to accomodate such wide tires as you have listed.
Also, what were some of the main differences in feel and handling that you noticed
when you went from just springs to the Tien coilover suspension?
Thanks!
Jimmy
Before the Volks I ran ASA FR1s, which are now sold as Shuk's on tirerack.com. The offsets were practically the same, but the Shuks were heavier than the Volk's by about a total of about 5lbs per rim. The stock Volk setup with wider tires is no heavier than stock 16s with S02s (though polar moment of inertia is in all likelihood a bit more). My only complaint with the Volks is that the front is only 7.5" wide.
DavePK and Krazik run Custom 18x9 and 18x10 CCWs and are running the equivalent of a 315 in back I believe (slicks). You can get some wide ass tires on the S2000.
Surprisingly on the street it's hard to tell the difference between the Tein RAs and the KG/MMs. But on the track it's a different story. The stock shocks (no matter what springs you run) end up fading pretty good when you push hard and after a few laps the car starts to wallow and get all mushy after ~10 hard miles. If the Tein's fade it's not enough to notice in a 20-30 min. session.
IMHO stay away from the Spoon wheels. They've got weird offsets, are comparitively expensive and aren't wide enough to fit any kind of serious rubber. Plus you'll have probs with aftermarket calipers if you eventually go that route.
10-07-2004, 10:02 PM
#15
Registered User
10-08-2004, 04:33 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Posts: 58,680
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hey Jimmy, nice to see ya back!
Austin, eh?
My student last weekend at Watkins Glen has an E46 M3, what a blast.
I have said it before, and I will say it again, much of the "perceived snap oversteer" can be addressed with a good alignment featuring a couple of degrees of negative camber in the rear, good tires and some driving experience. I'm still running a mostly stock suspension at the track and I love it, the car is balanced and for the most part very predictable. I love how easy it can be rotated with a little late braking or some trailing throttle oversteer. The only change is I added is a shock tower brace, an X-brace and my roll bar, so my mods are nothing more than even greater stiffness. The one time I lost the backend completely was 100% my fault, I was on the brakes later than normal, I turned in later than normal and when I did my input was a bit to abrupt because I was feeling so late, and then like a dolt I got on the gas like I normally do in The Toe, and out it came; no biggie, just a 275 degree spin at 70 mph, car never left the track or even got close to the apex curbing.
If you are going to pick up an S get an '02 or an '03. Put good S-02s on it, get a good alignment done and spend your money on a good driving school at a track. I would spend money on a track weekend before I would start spending money on suspension changes...
Austin, eh?
My student last weekend at Watkins Glen has an E46 M3, what a blast.
I have said it before, and I will say it again, much of the "perceived snap oversteer" can be addressed with a good alignment featuring a couple of degrees of negative camber in the rear, good tires and some driving experience. I'm still running a mostly stock suspension at the track and I love it, the car is balanced and for the most part very predictable. I love how easy it can be rotated with a little late braking or some trailing throttle oversteer. The only change is I added is a shock tower brace, an X-brace and my roll bar, so my mods are nothing more than even greater stiffness. The one time I lost the backend completely was 100% my fault, I was on the brakes later than normal, I turned in later than normal and when I did my input was a bit to abrupt because I was feeling so late, and then like a dolt I got on the gas like I normally do in The Toe, and out it came; no biggie, just a 275 degree spin at 70 mph, car never left the track or even got close to the apex curbing.
If you are going to pick up an S get an '02 or an '03. Put good S-02s on it, get a good alignment done and spend your money on a good driving school at a track. I would spend money on a track weekend before I would start spending money on suspension changes...
10-08-2004, 10:21 AM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Triple-H,Oct 8 2004, 07:33 AM
Hey Jimmy, nice to see ya back!
Austin, eh?
My student last weekend at Watkins Glen has an E46 M3, what a blast.
I have said it before, and I will say it again, much of the "perceived snap oversteer" can be addressed with a good alignment featuring a couple of degrees of negative camber in the rear, good tires and some driving experience. I'm still running a mostly stock suspension at the track and I love it, the car is balanced and for the most part very predictable. I love how easy it can be rotated with a little late braking or some trailing throttle oversteer. The only change is I added is a shock tower brace, an X-brace and my roll bar, so my mods are nothing more than even greater stiffness. The one time I lost the backend completely was 100% my fault, I was on the brakes later than normal, I turned in later than normal and when I did my input was a bit to abrupt because I was feeling so late, and then like a dolt I got on the gas like I normally do in The Toe, and out it came; no biggie, just a 275 degree spin at 70 mph, car never left the track or even got close to the apex curbing.
If you are going to pick up an S get an '02 or an '03. Put good S-02s on it, get a good alignment done and spend your money on a good driving school at a track. I would spend money on a track weekend before I would start spending money on suspension changes...
Austin, eh?
My student last weekend at Watkins Glen has an E46 M3, what a blast.
I have said it before, and I will say it again, much of the "perceived snap oversteer" can be addressed with a good alignment featuring a couple of degrees of negative camber in the rear, good tires and some driving experience. I'm still running a mostly stock suspension at the track and I love it, the car is balanced and for the most part very predictable. I love how easy it can be rotated with a little late braking or some trailing throttle oversteer. The only change is I added is a shock tower brace, an X-brace and my roll bar, so my mods are nothing more than even greater stiffness. The one time I lost the backend completely was 100% my fault, I was on the brakes later than normal, I turned in later than normal and when I did my input was a bit to abrupt because I was feeling so late, and then like a dolt I got on the gas like I normally do in The Toe, and out it came; no biggie, just a 275 degree spin at 70 mph, car never left the track or even got close to the apex curbing.
If you are going to pick up an S get an '02 or an '03. Put good S-02s on it, get a good alignment done and spend your money on a good driving school at a track. I would spend money on a track weekend before I would start spending money on suspension changes...
It's been a long time! Does Eric and the Professor still post in the upstate NY
board?
Thanks for the response. I've done a few track events with my M3 and with
the 333hp and SMG, I can pretty much eat anyone out there hahahahaha!
It's more about the car than my skills. =D Except well driven Vipers, Z06's,
and decked out Porsche race cars, those are impossible to catch.
If I do get the S2k, I'll probably look for an '02 just because I read that there
were lots of updates to it, and I'm not too fond of the newest style S2k. Doesn't
look as pure as the 1st generation. =D I'll also track it stock form with fresh
tires and a good alignment. And go from there.
I am posting this thread because I come from an extremely extremely easy to
drive car, the E46 M3, to a much more nimble S2k, and am concerned that
I might put myself in danger with the inherent twitchy rear end, but I think my
concerns are just way over the board now. So, we'll see how it goes.
Btw, what is the general consensus of the F20C motor's reliability?
My S54 motor in the M3 wasn't that reliable... ask me how I know... =D
Jimmy
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post