DavidNJ

The S2000 is/was a very special car. In retrospect, some what better than the Porsche Boxster of its time in ways that weren't readily apparent. The engine, weight, suspension, etc.

For reference, a friend of mine who wrote for a major auto magazine convinced me to get the S2000 instead of the then new BMW M Roadster and I had deposits on both the S2000 and the then new Porsche Boxster S. I took delivery in September 1999 after Hurricane Floyd, the first S2000 delivered by my dealer. When I traded for a 2004, I also looked at the Boxster S. My mistake...not getting a 2009. Who thought there wouldn't be another car like it?

However, this forum is filled with owners going through torture to install roll bars, racing seats, and racing belts. Hard to make it fit tall drivers. Having to cut lots of interior trim. Then having to upgrade brakes, suspension, etc. and end up with a car that needs a trailer to carry any meaningful spares.

The Mustang has none of that. A roll bar is available that bolts into factory threaded holes on structural members. Seat tracks are available that fits most racing seats with mounting points for the harness lap and submarine belts in addition to the OEM seat belts. And it works with the Recaro slider. The size of the Mustang interior makes fitting the seats relatively easy. The suspension comes track ready. Brake pads and ducts are a good idea and a kit is readily available. It comes with Michelin PS2s with 305/30-19 square on 10.5 and 11 inch wide rims. Really nearly ready to go from the showroom floor. And for 2019 with rev-matching, which can be handy for those of us who aren't heal-and-toe masters.

If you wanted more power Ford sells a $7100 supercharger kit they claim provides 650 50-state legal horsepower. However, it is unlikely the otherwise unmodified car's cooling, brakes, etc are ready to handle that power on a road course. My guess is the 12.5@115 acceleration will be more than enough to keep most HPDE driver's happy.

freq

^^^^ Link?

rbtz

This is what I keep saying, yeah the s2000 is probably the best value as a track car OR daily driver, but when you want to safely do both with the same car it's just not possible unless you're under 5'7 I'd imagine, and even then it's not ideal. I'm not even talking about doing TT and dailying either. In my case I just want to be able to do 1-2 track days a year until I have the money to get more serious, but in order to do that I need to install a roll bar, which means I need a seat, which means I need a harness. Doing all that not only costs a bunch of money, but its a huge commitment for someone just looking to try HPDE.

roel03

I don't agree with any of that.

You don't need to buy a seat and harnesses to run a roll bar. If you're only doing 1-2 events a year just keep the car stock and roll with it. If you are too tall and need a roll bar, do just a roll bar. I'm 5'11" and did track days with stock seats, Modifry seat belt lock, and a Harddog roll bar for 3 years. I wrapped the bar with foam and my head is nowhere near hitting it.

It sounds like you're looking for excuses.

DanielB

Adding a rollbar does not require adding a seat and harness for HPDEs, at least that's not my experience at tracks in Colorado. In fact, tracks here accept the stock roll hoops as meeting their requirement for rollover protection. The S2000 is one of only a few cars accepted as-is - e.g. none of the Miatas are accepted without a rollbar anymore. So you can go out on track at open lapping events sponsored by the track with the S2000 stock if you want. Events sponsored by other organizations may have their own rules. Note: I would not recommend it as most of us are tall enough that we won't be protected by the factory hoops.

I added a Harddog roll bar because I track enough that I wanted the extra protection. I have left the stock seats with stock 3 point belts and there are no issues with getting on track at anything short of wheel to wheel racing events. Of course, I would prefer the benefits of a proper racing seat, but I still want a reasonably street-friendly car - hence the compromise.

If you just want to do a few HPDEs per year you can do it for a reasonable level of investment and mods to an S2000.

rbtz

I'm too tall to pass broomstick with just a bar, especially since I lose a little bit of recline with the bar installed. Have a friend with just a HD bar and I can't pass with a helmet on, so I actually would need a seat, which means I'd need a harness.

Fair enough that the rules might be more lax in some areas, but out here you cannot get on track without passing broomstick.

I can buy a mustang, c5z, brz or a 350z stock and track it without issue. With an s2000 I have to drop $1000 to get a roll bar, cut into the body to install it, and then cut up a bunch of the plastics to make it not look terrible. In my specific case, I'd need to spend even more for seats and harnesses. You're telling me that's not a big issue with the s2000 being used as a DD AND HPDE car compared to other options?

roel03

In my opinion, no it's not a big issue. Right now my car is my DD and HPDE car. I actually think it looks better with the Harddog bar than stock roll hoops. I was planning on putting all of the interior in until I put the stock center console in and realized that's really all that matters. You can't see anything behind that anyways, even if it did bother me. If you absolutely need to get a seat, then just put your stock one back in when you're not at the track. It takes a when half hour to do and since you're only doing a couple events a year it's not a big deal.

To me this is a very small compromise (if you want to call adding safety items a compromise) that I would make any day to drive an S2000 over the other options you listed.

DavidNJ

Which links? Most of the Mustang links are here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24445688&postcount=77

The HPDE/track day safety issue has been discussed ad infinitum. When I started there were no track days and harnesses, roll bars, multi-layer Nomex suits, and a fire extinguisher were required. HPDEs with their lax car prep rules and in-car instructors are a development of the 1990s. They keep most race track booked.

As in amateur racing, the statistics and details of accidents are not made public and only leaks out in the occasional article or YouTube video. This thread has a few of the videos linked, including a Miata flipping in a track day event. GRM has a 2009 article of a Miata catching fire in a practice session. The driver was wearing a Nomex suit. Another pair of GRM articles discusses one of their Miatas destroyed in a track day event hitting an ancient Nash. Another article is by the driver of the Nash, describing her injuries.

The net is accidents happen. Most crashes have impact speeds well below the car's nominal speed when the driver lost control...but not always. OEM safety equipment is marginal at highway speeds. A 3point belt will not keep a driver in their seat in a 120mph crash. The accident can occur because of a part failure (the newest S2000 is 9 years old and many 15+ years old), a driver error, another car's equipment failure (e.g., oil, water, or anti-freeze on the track), or another car's driver error (watch the opening lap of the Spanish GP).

Unless the insurance companies shut it down, track day events will continue and it is up to the individual, the states, the tracks, and the organizers to decide what is enough safety equipment. In NJ, a rollbar and HANS device would be required.

The safety equipment is for personal injury. It is far more likely to be in an accident that causes significant if not terminal damage to the car. Insurance is available with a high deductible of damage to the car. How many people carry it? How many people can pocket the total loss or near total loss of their car?

In this thread, I've also recommended trailering a Spec Racer Ford (which can be bought for under $15k and has a high resale value) or Spec Miata to track days rather than use an S2000. Many like driving their cars to the events. For that, the Mustang PP2 seems the perfect answer. Why the Mustang and not other choices? Because the parts are available to easily install the safety equipment and seat and most of the parts should be strong enough. It is also large enough to carry stuff to the track and fast enough to be interesting. The most I can see needing, other than safety equipment, are brake ducts, brake pads, and maybe a larger radiator or floating front brake rotors.

hwyix

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...werful-engine/

2019 Miata rumored with 181 horse power. From what I read the 2016-18 ND miata with 151 horse power was close in time with the S2000.

I think I might just buy used temp car to hold me for a while.

DavidNJ

The ND Miata has lots of issues as a track day car. All the rollbars are two narrow IMHO. Same seat issue as the S2k. And the suspension is way too soft. MrSideways, a frequent poster here, won the the SCCA Solo II Nationals in STR last year in an ND Miata (STR is the most competitive class, this is a big achievement). You can read about what he did to win here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24359188&postcount=6. If you price the pieces at Goodwin or elsewhere, prepping an ND Miata isn't cheap.

What about a BRZ? Figure out your capital and operating budgets, objectives, constraints, etc. and then plan. I can't see an ND Miata being the answer. The Mustang PP2 is an option because it comes ready to run from the factory AND there are vendors selling excellent rollbar, seat mount, and harness mounting options. Assuming you live in an area where it wouldn't be stolen, you could even park it on the street.

If you have the garage and trailer storage spaces, I can't imagine a choice that leaves more options, is easier to work on, costs less, and is more fun than a Spec Racer Ford.