Iceman1

let me just say right away.... i absolutely agree that the stock suspension is excellant... without a doubt... i know its hard to improve on... yes, i know i must improve the driver...

i want to do 2 specific things...

1. i want to lower my car while maintaining stock levels of cornering ability
2. remove as much oversteer

after having driven the car hard for 6 months i want to remove as much oversteer and get the car to be as neutral as possible, if anything, understeer at the very limit... this is what will instill confidence in myself, and what i need to be able to push myself harder...


i plan on altering my stock spring rates' front-rear bias so that i can address oversteer and also drop the car at the same time. 2 birds with 1 stone. i plan on getting ground control/eibach springs so i can select the rates.

these are my questions:

1. is it advisable to keep the stock shocks with stiffer ground control springs?
1a. if so, will it help/hurt handling any?
1b. if so, how much spring rate can the stock shocks handle before exceesive wear?

2. will Koni yellow's (with ground control springs) atleast equal the stock cornering ability?
2a. will stiffer (ex. ~350-400lbs) springs help/hurt handling any?

CAR'S NOT A DAILY DRIVER... a harsh ride is OK as long as handling is not diminished. i just want to get back to the stock handling while addressing the drop and oversteer issues.




things on the car that I WILL NOT change:

stock AP1 wheels, Toyo RA-1 -- (225/255), Cusco 32mm sway bar

things I WILL NOT buy:

penske, moton, ohlins, JRZ


thanks for any help.

gfacter

I suggest you first try a stiffer front bar before changing springs, as it is the cars are pretty neutral with stock bars and springs.

The damping is pretty good with the stock springs, you may need more with heavier springs. Perhaps Konis and heavier springs would be better?

I would try a proven heavy bar, Comptech, Genrdron etc

I personally have the Comptech Adjustable bar, with the OEM S02's I get some
understeer on street, with 225/245s the car rotates nicely.

cthree

I really don't understand your question, here's why. On the one hand you say you want to improve or maintain the stock handling and on the other you say you want to make the car push like a mofo. Yes, the spring combo you propose along with the other mods you've made should completely #### up the handling characteristics of the car but you might want to remove the rear sway bar as well for full effect. Just make sure you keep the stock parts and put them back before you sell the car to avoid passing on your horrible setup to future generations.

Asura

1. No
1a/b. You have a 2001 with how many miles? You stock shocks might be toast. Using stiffer springs on worn-out shocks is not going to improve the handling of your car.

2. What do you mean by equal the stock handling? You can lower the car, and run stiff rates. It will corner better, but ride harsher for normal street driving.
I went from Koni/GC/Eibachs with spring rates of 340/380 (too squishy) to 450/550 (firmer but not firm enough).

I was not aware that Toyo made 255 RA1s for oem AP1s.

Going to Koni shocks will not give you stock-like handling.

If you want stock like handling, buy some low mileage used stock shocks to play with.

Iceman1

the car has 29,000 miles on it...

let me clarify... by equal to stock handling...i mean specifically cornering ability... i just dont want to actually LOSE any of the cornering ability of the stock suspension... im not worried about normal road harshness ... its only a weekend car...

thanks Azura... so your saying you had better than stock cornering with the stiffer Koni/GC setup?

Yes, there's a 255/50-16 RA-1 for a 7.5 inch rim.

thanks gfacter...i would have gotten the heavier bar if i didnt want to also get springs to lower the car... but in my 6 months of driving MY stock car hard... i cant agree with you that the car handle's neutral... my car is prone to a good deal of oversteer... and thats why im hoping to neutralize the handling with a change in spring rates... since i have to get springs to drop the car anyway...

Asura

cthree makes some very good points.

You cannot 'lose' handling, but you make a car more or less difficult to drive. What works for you may not work for someone else so there is no 'perfect' set-up. However taking the experience of others here might save you a ton of time, and even a few dollars.

There certainly are components that are favored over others simply because they work.

If you attempt to fix a perceived problem with a compromise, only you can judge how much better or worse it is in the end.

That 255/50-16 sounds like a bad idea.

Iceman1

the tires are runnin fine...

rlaifatt

I am surprised that the car would oversteer with that much tire stagger (225/255), unless it's due to some strange result of the 255's being an inch taller than the 225's. Have you had someone else drive the car to see what they think? The "oversteer" you are experiencing could be driver induced (e.g., lifting in the corner).

In any case, regardless of what suspension you have or end up with, adding the bump steer kit will certainly improve your control of the rear end.

44Runner

This oversteer is most likely driver induced unless there is something wrong with the car.

The only people that complain of excessive oversteer are those that are not great drivers. I am not knocking you, that's just how it is. I would suggest some driving courses. In short, its you, not the car that needs help.

Why on earth would you want understeer? If my car did that I would step out and give it a swift kick in the fender. This is yet another thing that leads me to believe you might be a little inexperienced...

Wildncrazy

What brand tires do you have?

I found that the actual tire sizes vary even tho the rated size may be the same. I ran BFG KD's in a 255 and found they were 1/2" narrower than the stock size so I had oversteer like a mofo.

I'd look at your tires first. Use the Tirerack site to compare real sizes when buying tires. If a manufacturer doesn't list a real tread width then usually that means they make the tire undersized so look at another tire.

EDIT: Wait, I hadn't realized this was in the Racing and Competition forum the way your post read sounded like a street forum. I would presume that if you are on this forum you are on the track and probably are paying attention to proper tire stagger.