Wilwood's own brake kit
04-20-2010, 08:18 PM
#21
Originally Posted by prj3ctm4yh3m,Apr 14 2010, 12:58 PM
i was looking around. they have a forged 4 piston caliper (with a larger body than the dynalites AND a bridge) that takes a 3.50'' lug mount that is much closer to the stock piston area (3.54 in2) than their packaged kit above (and would be ALOT cheaper, but i cant seem to find any info on the mounting bracket part no. I wonder if it would be the same as the sherwood kit with the FDL caliper????
It's been so long since I last talked to him, but he said he would make a kit for me to fit those calipers a few months after I got my S2000.
My S2000 came with a Wilwood kit installed. I think it was the 4 piston Dynalite caliper, though. They looked really dinky. I sold them for stock brakes, and I was glad I did. The Superlites on my R were a lot better than the stock S caliper, though.
-Andrew
04-20-2010, 10:23 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Cheers!,Apr 19 2010, 04:27 PM
Care to elaborate? I would love to see your derivation that shows that area is dependent on force of friction.
if surface area is irrelevant to a friction or grip computation then why do we ALL KNOW that wider tires with more surface area = MORE GRIP?
[F(resistive) = μ N]
this is the simplistic formula always quoted, except HOW do you determine μ ???
μ is just a constant put into this simplistic formula to MASK all the complicated EMPIRICAL work that has to be done in order to determine any one material's friction properties.
μ can be nonlinear, it can be linear, it can be a constant, it can be 0!
if you still don't believe me, here's the FIRST link from google when you search "friction force calculation"
http://www.school-for-champions.com/scienc...on_equation.htm
"""When applied to sliding friction of hard surfaces, the equation implies that friction is independent of the area of the surfaces in contact.
This equation can also apply to soft surfaces, rolling friction and fluid friction, but the coefficient of friction may depend on AREA, shape and viscosity factors."""
[all caps mine]
04-21-2010, 10:40 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Clark,Apr 20 2010, 10:43 PM
okay, let's just do the logic on this.
When the wheel speed sensor detects impending lockup, it activates the ABS system.
This system is calibrated for the normal envelope of stock components, expecting to save your bacon from poor surface conditions (not slicks, race pads, and attempted threshold braking).
So based on how far outside that envelope you've gone, you may reach some small lockup as the ABS may or may not react as quickly as your driving and equipment cause the condition to occur. Most of us have encountered this to various degrees.
The means by which the ABS does it's job is to release a little fluid based on its programming. And it continues to do it at it's programmed refresh rate (20 Hz, 10 Hz ?) so long as it detects the condition.
Based on the volume it takes to move the pistons in your calipers vs. stock (i.e. the programming), is what will determine how effective each 'pulse' of fluid relief is effective.
In most cases I suspect on pure instinct, and the lack in volume of 'OMG my BBK made my ABS not work' posts, particularly in the simpler mods forums, that this rarely causes things to get all out of sorts.
However, it is indeed possible to have some horrible combination which brings out the dark side. Unlikely, but it could happen.
When the wheel speed sensor detects impending lockup, it activates the ABS system.
This system is calibrated for the normal envelope of stock components, expecting to save your bacon from poor surface conditions (not slicks, race pads, and attempted threshold braking).
So based on how far outside that envelope you've gone, you may reach some small lockup as the ABS may or may not react as quickly as your driving and equipment cause the condition to occur. Most of us have encountered this to various degrees.
The means by which the ABS does it's job is to release a little fluid based on its programming. And it continues to do it at it's programmed refresh rate (20 Hz, 10 Hz ?) so long as it detects the condition.
Based on the volume it takes to move the pistons in your calipers vs. stock (i.e. the programming), is what will determine how effective each 'pulse' of fluid relief is effective.
In most cases I suspect on pure instinct, and the lack in volume of 'OMG my BBK made my ABS not work' posts, particularly in the simpler mods forums, that this rarely causes things to get all out of sorts.
However, it is indeed possible to have some horrible combination which brings out the dark side. Unlikely, but it could happen.
Put it this way, I have 'em. My ABS engages fine. I like the ease with which I can switch pads. Can anyone else that owns them or a similar BBK chime in with their experience in Auto X/Road Course situations (cuz you won't engage ABS on the street)?
04-21-2010, 07:59 PM
#24
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ABS works fine on my kit as well, though it's technically not a BBK. Anyway, the bulk of my post supports what you're saying, I'm just validating both the 'it shouldn't be a problem' point of view while still giving the caveat that it IS POSSIBLE for there to be some situation where there is a negative noticeable effect.
I was in the mood to chime in, and it was either this one or the even more ridiculous argument going on about how to turn Normal Force and coefficient of friction into friction force.
I was in the mood to chime in, and it was either this one or the even more ridiculous argument going on about how to turn Normal Force and coefficient of friction into friction force.
04-21-2010, 08:47 PM
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It did not work properly using HT10's on the wilwood 6 piston kit on my car. Once it engaged, the brake force would half. I have data from the session. It is noticeable even on the data.
Bill
Bill
04-22-2010, 08:24 AM
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case in point, I could forsee a unique combination where it would be undesirable, though probably not common.
Remember the first ABS units that when presented with nearly frictionless ice just never stopped the car?
Remember the first ABS units that when presented with nearly frictionless ice just never stopped the car?
04-22-2010, 08:58 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Clark,Apr 22 2010, 11:24 AM
case in point, I could forsee a unique combination where it would be undesirable, though probably not common.
Remember the first ABS units that when presented with nearly frictionless ice just never stopped the car?
Remember the first ABS units that when presented with nearly frictionless ice just never stopped the car?
Bill, did you ever inform Wilwood of this problem? What could have been the issue? If I am going 100mph and I brake extremely hard I feel the 'dadadadadada' of the ABS and I brake straight and true and quickly. So, there's our sample so far. Looks like sixes on good experiences with the SL6R kit.
04-22-2010, 08:32 PM
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I never said I had the problem. I just engaged in the debate. My Wilwoods work fine, though I don't have data to back it up.
As for the snow/ice, I somewhat agree but keep in mind these situations are for the vast majority who can't drive. At least they crash in a straight line.
As for the snow/ice, I somewhat agree but keep in mind these situations are for the vast majority who can't drive. At least they crash in a straight line.
11-14-2011, 09:16 AM
#29
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"I can by rotor surface blanks for less than $40 shipped"
Do you happen to have the part number for this and for the bolt kit you used? I have both the Sherwin kit and the Wilwood kit direct from Wilwood and would be interested in these blanks. Thanks.
Do you happen to have the part number for this and for the bolt kit you used? I have both the Sherwin kit and the Wilwood kit direct from Wilwood and would be interested in these blanks. Thanks.
11-14-2011, 12:13 PM
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I don't have part numbers for the ones I've bought. I used to buy from Behrent's for @ $40 shipped. They no longer have them. I more recently bought from Summitt for @ $45 or so shipped. The brand was US Brake. Just use their search tools to match Wilwood compatible, rotor diameter and thickness. It is a very standard size.
As for bolts, I just went to a local Fastenall and bought a box. I don't have the length in front of me. I didn't like the bolts that came with the kit (and no lock washers bugged me) so I chose a different length to support my addition of lock washers.
As for bolts, I just went to a local Fastenall and bought a box. I don't have the length in front of me. I didn't like the bolts that came with the kit (and no lock washers bugged me) so I chose a different length to support my addition of lock washers.