TubeDriver

The benefits of an X-brace are not subtle on rough surfaces and presumably could help when competing as well. On the other hand, I felt NO difference at all when I added a STB. To all the doubters out there, how could a x-brace NOT stiffen up the front structure? Do you think seam welding the frame has no value? Do you think installing a well designed cage will have no effect on rigidity?

The question should not be whether it makes the front end more rigid but whether the improvement translates to faster times and increased control.

dispader

An easy way to answer this question is to find out who the fastest s2000's are and see if they are running x-braces.

A well designed cage is a far cry from an x-brace...

jerrypeterson

BINGO.







The reality is that unless a product improves your laptimes, its just extra weight slowing you down.

<Care to guess how many of the 'fast' drivers are using X-Braces?>

rlaifatt

I don't think any of the faster guys our here (CA) are using a X-brace. Excess weight. Rylan's car with huge slicks (more torque on body) was turning incredible times well before he got the cage. That's convinced me to remove mine, and I only got faster. I couldn't feel a difference in body stiffness.

Triple-H

We all come to the party with different priorities. Fastest lap times is not necessarily the most important thing to me.

I rarely autox but on the other hand I spend a lot of time at the track. The addition of an X-brace and STB are not going to show a measurable difference positive or negative in my lap times to due to the fact that I'm not at the level of Michael Schumacher so the difference in lap times can not be measure due to too many other driver induced variables.

Even if the X-brace and STB did not make the car easier to drive (thus faster) I feel they are a very important component for the long term care of a car that gets subjected to high levels of stress. For me the addition of extra structural reinforcements only seems to make sense.

In addition to the weight of the X-brace and STB I have another product that is extra weight and this product does not improve my lap times. You see my rollbar is an item for safety and I would not run without it.

dispader

Rollbars are good stuff . I'm hoping to get the Elda bar before the year is out. But I can testify that during a fairly highspeed rollover the stock hoops performed flawlessly. But I am only 5'8". Taller folks may have a problem.

rlaifatt

Agree 100% with the rollbar, and that's why we almost all have a rollbar or cage. But the X-brace doesn't add safety. I once saw someone say that it might subtract if it prevents the engine from sliding below the cabin in a frontal.

Orthonormal

The topic of the thread is handling effects of the X brace. I do believe you're trying to change the subject!

Lawrence, 1/2" of flex is a lot on any car! I don't think a Miata without a STB flexes that much, let alone the much much stiffer S2000. Think about the stress on your windshield. Wouldn't it shatter, or at least eventually start to crack? Wouldn't a windshield with a small crack almost immediately crack all the way from edge to edge? I can jack my Miata up from one corner so that both wheels on one side are off the ground, and then easily open and close both doors. If there were 1/2" of flex anywhere, I don't think I could do that. The S2000 is much stiffer than that. Are you sure those were the numbers? Who did the measurements? How did they do the measurements?

human

[QUOTE=Orthonormal,Jul 29 2004, 03:06 PM]Lawrence, 1/2" of flex is a lot on any car!

Triple-H

Give me a break...

A thread can become like a conversation where it starts to encompass a variety of aspects pertaining to the main topic. The conversation here was evolving into a variety of other aspects relating to chassis stiffness, X-braces, STBs, handling characteristics, safety, perceptions and opinions.