i find it interesting that you guys are quick to say you are right, however don't have any evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. Here is a small bit of information to back up my claim about e85 not affecting the food supply. I am eagerly awaiting you to find info supporting your claim.

Corn used for ethanol production is field corn typically used to feed livestock. Wet mill ethanol production facilities, also known as corn refineries, also produce starch, corn sweeteners, and corn oil

 

Because the energy balance of ethanol production is positive (1.67 to 1), greenhouse gas benefits are also positive. The Argonne National Laboratory has demonstrated that using ethanol produces 32 percent fewer emissions of greenhouse gases than gasoline for the same distance traveled. Ethanol also reduces emissions of other harmful pollutants such as carbon monoxide

 

The ethanol industry opens a new market for corn growers, allowing them to enjoy greater profitability. Studies have shown that corn prices in areas near ethanol plants tend to be 5 to 10 cents per bushel higher than in other areas. This additional income helps cut the costs of farm programs and add vitality to rural economies. The additional profit potential for farmers created by ethanol production allows more farmers to stay in business

 

The ultimate goal is to have all gas stations converted to 10% ethanol. The problem with this, however, has nothing to do with our engine but with the quality of the fuel leaving the tanks underground.

Ethanol burns much "cleaner" than gasoline so when e10 is introduced into an underground tank which carried regular gas for years, the ethanol will "clean" the insides of the tank and mix with the water (there is water in about every underground gas tank its just low enough to where the pumps cant reach it). The old residue in the tank is mixed with the water and you get bad gas in your car.

ALL franchise gas stations (not independantly owned) have had e10 conversions where they completely clean all the tanks and replace all seals and filters to insure clean gas going into your car. I recommend you do not go to an older station that is independently owned because most of them have not had their e10 conversions done. All BP am/pm's have had theirs done and most Shell gas stations have NOT. Be careful where you buy gas and stick to the large franchise/corporation owned stations.

 

[QUOTE=wirelessguy2005,Apr 26 2008, 07:22 PM]i think you might want to check the source on your information.

 

wirelessguy2005, i hate to say it, i use to think just like u, until i did my own research...
stoppre is correct here, for the most part...
everything u've stated are things that 'seems' more beneficial and they are arguments for proponents of ethanol. but if u read stoppre's documents, u can see why when u see the WHOLE story, ethanol in its current state is actually bad
ethanol will not go away as almost all politicians support it (since it helps the midwest farmers)... all 3 presidential candidates, obama, clinton and mccain are in favor.
all we can hope now is improve the technology and/or hope some better alternatives comes along so people will see the light.

 

Ethanol is just a hype to quickly boost the economy and make gas seem cheaper (taking advantage of the cusotmer) but in reality it's going to raise prices of food and it will go away eventually. Hydrogen power is coming up...

 

I'm not against Ethanol at all, I think its a great alternative for reducing emissions. But the way we are currently producing it is no better for the environment than just pumping oil out of the ground and burning it. Originally I stated Brazilian sugar cane and algae as alternatives to corn because they are able to produce more fuel using less land, while creating less pollution during the refining process.

http://www.energybulletin.net/2364.html

That's a very interesting paper written by the University of New Hampshire Biodiesel Group.

Approximately 18 gallons of corn ethanol can be yielded per acre, and soybean oil yields roughly 38 gallons per acre. Algae can yield approximately 5,000 gallons per hectacre (1 hectare = 2.47 acre)

The idea of algae biofuel production is new and still being developed, but because the government steps in to "help" our farmers we turn a blind eye to the alternative ways of ethanol production.

I'm not a person who doesn't believe in global warming or hates the Earth, I'm the exact opposite and that's why I disagree with the way our country is currently approaching the issues. We have been fed the ideas that ethanol is good for the environment and good for our economy. And though not false, the devil is in the details and we need to alter the method in which we create the fuel to see a truly positive impact from its use.

 

The anl report is widely criticized both on methodology and conclusions. The vast majority of studies for US ethanol production show at best energy neutral, without looking at "externalities" such as water, ADM's bribery, etc.

Brazil is successful because its conversion ratios are great, and that is due to the cane crop. If we were able to use switchgrass or other fast growing low-labor and pesticide demanding (say silicate rich) plants, our efficiency would be worthwhile to go this route.

 

I don't know why people keep talking about how un-viable e85 is as a fuel, how it takes too much energy to produce it, etc etc. You're referring to corn ethanol only but that's not the only option out there, and just because it may be the emerging source of ethanol right now due to political reasons, the idea of using e85 as a fuel should not be thrown out completely.

There are different types of ethanol made with various different key ingredients so it bothers me when people do not pay attention to this and they claim to have done research. Maybe they have done research, but they haven't done enough research. I'll post up a list of companies that provide alternatives to corn ethanol if necessary. There's already been mention of some alternatives above.