ragtophardtop

I was reading on a related thread about the 2008 model year changes.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/introduc...008-cr-525439/
It has been written many times that as the production years went on, the S2000 got softer. It seems though that with stiffer springs and more damping, that may not be the case for 2008.
Anybody know how neutral the handling of the 2008 is compared to the understeer prone 2007?

JamesD89

I don't know where you got the idea that the 07 cars are understeer prone. My 07 was far more twitchy than my E36 M3 which felt pretty neutral to me (if it pushed give it throttle into a nice controllable drift). Stiffer doesn't always equal better as well.

That being said those changes look like they would push the 08 cars more towards understeer, but I couldn't tell the difference between my 07 and my buddy's 08 after driving them back to back on the street.

Car Analogy

Comparison of '06-'07 vs '08-'09:

F/R springs

'06-'07
265/269

'08-'09
280/294


F/R ARB

'06-'07
300/311

'08-'09
354/311

So it got slightly stiffer springs, and stiffer front ARB. The question though is how much difference in front rear bias, understeer, etc. The rates can only be evaluated using Motion Ratios of front vs rear suspension. The rates themselves aren't enough to know without knowing how much leverage that spring or ARB has.

Using the MR measurements from Sakebomb Garage, the front vs rear bias is:

F/R bias

'06-'07
56.4%/43.6%

'08-'09
57.6%/42.4%

So the '08 is indeed slightly more front biased. Slightly more biased to understeer. In fact, aside from CR, the '08-'09 is the most front biased of all iteraions.

Its no surprise that the most front, understeer biased S is still daringly nuetral compared to many other cars.

Its possible to mix and match stock suspension components from other year S to alter the bias more to your liking. Usually this is adding a bigger front ARB for MORE front bias. But you could go the opposite way too (which is what I'm doing).

ragtophardtop

That's the problem, you can't tell important info in a test drive or in someone else's car.

Funny, I have an E36 M3 and am looking to replace it with an S2k. Previously I had a miata. I want a very neutral car, one that doesn't understeer in the sweepers or in the slaloms on the odd autoX day. If I keep the S2k long term I'll set it up for AutoX, but I prefer to keep it stock in the mean time. I prefer an 06 or newer due to the updates, but also prefer neutral handling.

It sound's like either of them will need some upgrades for the type of handling I want, but with only 1.2% shift in front bias between the years, it's not a big difference between 07 and 08.

Great info!

Car Analogy

Your FR bias is also going to be affected by alignment and several other factors. A 1% change in static bias by itself isn't going to be that significant.

Get the car. Drive the car. Modify the car. In that order.

Don't start modifying until you've driven it enough to get familiar with it as is.

hoobastnk90

Just get an AP1 problem solved

Jah2000

First, drive a 00-03, lol... then, you'll understand why the CR went more front-bias, and also why most people go for a thick front sway bar and a thin rear sway bar. (I have an 03)

I wouldn't call the later "softer" Ap2 and CR setups and specs "understeer" at all... I'd just call it more balanced and neutral. Whereas, the AP1 is just simply super oversteer crazy, twitchy, sensitive, true race-car balance for advanced drivers (very spin out prone, lol).

twohoos

I've never met an S2000 that was reluctant to change direction. I've driven stock and modified AP1s and AP2s, on street and track, including a couple S2000 race cars. The spring setups varied from heavy front bias to heavy rear bias. Guess what: they all handled "like an S2000" - neutral, responsive, and just twitchy enough at the limit to keep you focused...and entertained.

noodels

Never been good at maths
whats my bias with
10kg front ohlins<I think 560 lb>
8kgs rear " " <think 448lb> . kgs x56 to work out lbs.
CR front arb 396
311 rear on an 04 My car,
225 tyre and 255 on the rears btw
edit 560 &448

Car Analogy

Send me your email address an I'll send you a spreadsheet where you can type in your spring rates and it'll show you your static f to r bias.

It does the maths for you...