About to buy a new to me S2000
10-31-2018, 03:58 AM
#22
We just bought ours a few weeks ago and I went through the same analysis. We ended up with a 2004 with 114k, and bought at the low end of our price range. We went for our first choice in color and I’m really glad we did. Both ap1’s and 2’s made me smile so I would have been good either way. But as a fellow Midwesterner I’m finding I drive the car a lot more than I thought I would with the top up. And I did not like the view out of the plastic window of the 2001 I test drove. But you can budget for updating to a newer top, just be sure to get a defroster - I use that too.
10-31-2018, 04:56 AM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
We just bought ours a few weeks ago and I went through the same analysis. We ended up with a 2004 with 114k, and bought at the low end of our price range. We went for our first choice in color and I’m really glad we did. Both ap1’s and 2’s made me smile so I would have been good either way. But as a fellow Midwesterner I’m finding I drive the car a lot more than I thought I would with the top up. And I did not like the view out of the plastic window of the 2001 I test drove. But you can budget for updating to a newer top, just be sure to get a defroster - I use that too.
10-31-2018, 06:16 AM
#24
Choices are sometimes difficult but buyers remorse ain't fun. After a few months with my 2006 car I found the engine power disappointing. Funny how fun wears off quickly. 
But I'd predicted this during my search which I limited to only 2006 and later cars which got all the evolutionary biennial upgrades capped with a tuneable drive-by-wire ECU and stability assist/traction control. Tuning the 2.2 liter engine to activate the high power VTEC cam at 3600 rpm vs 6000 rpm gives the mid-range power it should have had from the factory. Can only note the difference is astounding. Only way to get more power is forced induction.
All the responses here are opinion (including mine, of course ) but I'd still not buy any pre-2006 car. I'd have bought a 2007 or 2008 if I could have found one.
Make a priority list. I doubt the two cars in question have identical scores. Mine was headed by 2006 or later and consequently produced a very limited short list. Color was not even on the list. With the approach of winter you have months to re-think your priorities. Best done before purchase.
-- Chuck
But I'd predicted this during my search which I limited to only 2006 and later cars which got all the evolutionary biennial upgrades capped with a tuneable drive-by-wire ECU and stability assist/traction control. Tuning the 2.2 liter engine to activate the high power VTEC cam at 3600 rpm vs 6000 rpm gives the mid-range power it should have had from the factory. Can only note the difference is astounding. Only way to get more power is forced induction.
All the responses here are opinion (including mine, of course
) but I'd still not buy any pre-2006 car. I'd have bought a 2007 or 2008 if I could have found one.Make a priority list. I doubt the two cars in question have identical scores. Mine was headed by 2006 or later and consequently produced a very limited short list. Color was not even on the list. With the approach of winter you have months to re-think your priorities. Best done before purchase.
-- Chuck
10-31-2018, 07:15 AM
#25
Registered User
Thread Starter
Choices are sometimes difficult but buyers remorse ain't fun. After a few months with my 2006 car I found the engine power disappointing. Funny how fun wears off quickly.
But I'd predicted this during my search which I limited to only 2006 and later cars which got all the evolutionary biennial upgrades capped with a tuneable drive-by-wire ECU and stability assist/traction control. Tuning the 2.2 liter engine to activate the high power VTEC cam at 3600 rpm vs 6000 rpm gives the mid-range power it should have had from the factory. Can only note the difference is astounding. Only way to get more power is forced induction.
All the responses here are opinion (including mine, of course ) but I'd still not buy any pre-2006 car. I'd have bought a 2007 or 2008 if I could have found one.
Make a priority list. I doubt the two cars in question have identical scores. Mine was headed by 2006 or later and consequently produced a very limited short list. Color was not even on the list. With the approach of winter you have months to re-think your priorities. Best done before purchase.
-- Chuck
But I'd predicted this during my search which I limited to only 2006 and later cars which got all the evolutionary biennial upgrades capped with a tuneable drive-by-wire ECU and stability assist/traction control. Tuning the 2.2 liter engine to activate the high power VTEC cam at 3600 rpm vs 6000 rpm gives the mid-range power it should have had from the factory. Can only note the difference is astounding. Only way to get more power is forced induction.
All the responses here are opinion (including mine, of course
) but I'd still not buy any pre-2006 car. I'd have bought a 2007 or 2008 if I could have found one.Make a priority list. I doubt the two cars in question have identical scores. Mine was headed by 2006 or later and consequently produced a very limited short list. Color was not even on the list. With the approach of winter you have months to re-think your priorities. Best done before purchase.
-- Chuck
I am a "stock" type person. I don't like to modify the engines typically. However, I would consider the Hondata. If I left the Cat original and did not put anything else on the car and left it stock does the Hondata still make a difference?
10-31-2018, 08:04 AM
#26
If your goal for the car is to pass it along to your son after a few decades then I'd suggest doing a fair amount of research on tuning and long term impacts from non-biased sources.
10-31-2018, 08:23 AM
#27
Nowadays, you can lower VTEC on any year car. It's no longer just 06+ with flashpro. I have done the same on my 02 with a Karcepts tuning package.
Personally, I'd get the cheaper car. From how you describe it the car is mint. When one takes care of this far, it seems like it would last forever. I just hit 186k on mine and it drives better than my 25k FR-S.
Personally, I'd get the cheaper car. From how you describe it the car is mint. When one takes care of this far, it seems like it would last forever. I just hit 186k on mine and it drives better than my 25k FR-S.
10-31-2018, 08:48 AM
#28
Correct! There are means of lowering VTEC in all our cars. FlashPro and the OE 2006+ ECU is an extremely convenient way since it does not require replacing or modifying the OE ECU or engine sensors and there are reliable eTuners who have done this. Literal plug-and-play. (Plus 2006 and later gets traction and stability control -- that can be switched off if you're offended the car thinks you don't know how to drive!) A couple of Saturdays acquiring and exchanging data and the tune was loaded and operational. Lowering VTEC does not increase peak power significantly but does put more power lower in the rev band where it can be used. I can't find risk or any downside to this. (I had visions of doing this myself but the learning curve was too steep for me and the risks too great. )
So called "bolt-on" mods to the S2000 engine are essentially fruitless. Recall that at introduction this was the post powerful normally aspirated engine per displacement ever. Honda pretty much squeezed as hard as they could. The engines are extremely robust as is witnessed by the power that can be achieved with supercharging.
I have no illusions these cars will ever be any more collectible than my old MGB nor do I have any concerns regarding a lower VTEC engagement provided all the fuel tables are properly set. I admit I did save the OE exhaust (including the cat) for a couple of years but when it came time to make an interstate move the cat and exhaust tips went to good homes and the exhaust went to the curb.
A high flow cat was required to drop my VTEC to 3600 rpm via my Gernby FlashPro tune. I don't recall how low it can be set with the OE cat.
-- Chuck
There are means of lowering VTEC in all our cars. FlashPro and the OE 2006+ ECU is an extremely convenient way since it does not require replacing or modifying the OE ECU or engine sensors and there are reliable eTuners who have done this. Literal plug-and-play. (Plus 2006 and later gets traction and stability control -- that can be switched off if you're offended the car thinks you don't know how to drive!) A couple of Saturdays acquiring and exchanging data and the tune was loaded and operational. Lowering VTEC does not increase peak power significantly but does put more power lower in the rev band where it can be used. I can't find risk or any downside to this. (I had visions of doing this myself but the learning curve was too steep for me and the risks too great. )So called "bolt-on" mods to the S2000 engine are essentially fruitless. Recall that at introduction this was the post powerful normally aspirated engine per displacement ever. Honda pretty much squeezed as hard as they could. The engines are extremely robust as is witnessed by the power that can be achieved with supercharging.
I have no illusions these cars will ever be any more collectible than my old MGB nor do I have any concerns regarding a lower VTEC engagement provided all the fuel tables are properly set. I admit I did save the OE exhaust (including the cat) for a couple of years but when it came time to make an interstate move the cat and exhaust tips went to good homes and the exhaust went to the curb.
A high flow cat was required to drop my VTEC to 3600 rpm via my Gernby FlashPro tune. I don't recall how low it can be set with the OE cat.
-- Chuck
Last edited by Chuck S; 10-31-2018 at 08:52 AM.
10-31-2018, 11:46 AM
#29
The Karcepts tune is also plug and play. It is a piggyback to the OEM ECU. Not a single modification to the motor or sensors. All they suggest is a high flow cat and exhaust to work properly.
Reversal of the mod is just unplugging the piggyback ECU.
Reversal of the mod is just unplugging the piggyback ECU.
10-31-2018, 03:36 PM
#30
The AP2 is the better car (factual statement). Nobody is going to argue that.
But..some people prefer the AP1 based on monetary situation and desired traits.
Which car did you like to drive better?
The AP2 is already an AP2. So you already have all the extensive mechanical and durability related fixes that you may need to do on the AP1. It will also be faster, hold value better, and be more drivable.
The AP1 is $5K cheaper...which is significant and you can definitely update any reliability related issues in that delta. And it revs to 9K...which is so sicc.
Is one of them a nicer colour?
But..some people prefer the AP1 based on monetary situation and desired traits.
Which car did you like to drive better?
The AP2 is already an AP2. So you already have all the extensive mechanical and durability related fixes that you may need to do on the AP1. It will also be faster, hold value better, and be more drivable.
The AP1 is $5K cheaper...which is significant and you can definitely update any reliability related issues in that delta. And it revs to 9K...which is so sicc.
Is one of them a nicer colour?