rpg51

I totally agree with you on this. I felt the need to employ a bit of hyperbole to offset some of the posts here about supposed superiority of the ap2. Notice the smiley face after my post, It was tongue in cheek. I just didn't want anyone reading this thread to get the wrong idea that there is some uniform belief that the ap2 is objectively superior. There isn't.

The ap1 and ap2 are more alike than they are different. Both are wonderful cars. As you say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. I prefer the ap1s, but I totally get why some prefer the ap2. Anyone who is new to these cars really should drive both the ap1 and the ap2 before making a decision which to buy. Best to make up you own mind rather then relying on me, or anyone else, to describe the differences.

I think you are correct on the plastic window by the way. I prefer the glass because I find it easier to care for - basically you just ignore it. But, the plastic is bigger and it is a noticeably better view out the back. That is true.

JRG2000

I need your help or advice again. It was a busy week and I just got back today to look at the car I have it narrowed down to. It's a 2001 S2000 AP1 with 78,000 miles. 1 owner (supposedly older gentleman), clean CarFax. All looks good, but it is a dealer who is selling this 1 owner car. He specializes in vintage or exotic cars and says he got it from an auction. The dealer has all of the maintenance history from the original seller including a car cover and it all looks good. Car is clean and looks to be pristine.

Question: All VIN tags are present accept for the one under the hood on top of the bumper. Dealer says it probably got washed off when they were cleaning the engine. I don't think so. I think maybe the bumper was replaced or it had a front end accident that was not reported, but the bumper and paint look good.

Opinions: Does a missing bumper VIN hurt the value or really mean anything?

Say Chi Sin Lo

"... washed off when they were cleaning the engine"...
BS, and if so, you better make sure they didn't break anything else off in there. I'd say the bumper was replaced early in the life of the car for whatever reason. One of my fender doesn't have a VIN. Everything lines up, paint matches, revs to 9,000rpm like it's nothing, can care less.

But, if they're being shady about the story, AND (if) you're paying dealer price... I'd think twice man.

Fact
- not having all 10 matching VIN numbers will hurt resale value with all things being equal.

Fact
- The above statement only applies to future buyers who are in the know. General public be like: "Huh? VIN? Oh you mean Vin Diesel!"

Hfreak

It could have been blown off by a pressure washer but who really knows? A missing VIN is a perfect way to haggle on the price if it means nothing to you but if it does mean something then you will not be happy. Painted over VIN's are different as it shows the original part is still there. All depends on price and if you plan to sell in the future, some buyers are picky on VIN's and these cars are getting harder to find with all VIN's intact.

sns828

I'm also in the Chicago suburbs, by chance is this the vehicle at dreamcarchicago.com? I haven't seen the car in person but looking very closely at those front images the paint is clearly off.

I know from experience silver is a very tough color to match especially on a 17yr old vehicle. Missing that vin, I would highly suspect a front accident in its past and have to question just why would this one owner, no accident car end up at auction?

JRG2000

Yep, DreamCarChicago.
Owner had a real bad attitude. As soon as I walked in and asked about the S2000 he asked me if I knew his asking price and told me it was perfect in every way, then proceeded to tell me about all the stupid kids (I'm in my 40's) making him low ball offers on his perfect car that was one owner babied and how he would not budge in price because the car was so perfect. He said if I did not pay full asking price he would store it over the winter and add $3,000 to the asking price in the spring. All of this came before I even said a word to him. When I finally spoke, I asked him how he knew it was babied if he bought it in an auction. He did not like that. When I saw the VIN tag was missing he got kind of angry and told me again how he wouldn't budge in price, and how the VIN tag probably came off when the meticulous owner was pressure washing the engine bay. All I told him was it's not so perfect. When we parted ways I kindly explained to him that I am also in sales and have never treated a customer that way ever. He did not apologize and I left.

Funny thing, I was going to buy the car tonight...I had my check book with me. I was a little disappointed when I noticed the missing bumper VIN, but I was going to put it on the lift and look at it from underneath to see if it was just a bumper replacement and not an accident. He turned me off so much I had to leave because at that moment I had no intention of buying a car from this guy. I have been in sales my whole life and never would have chased a customer away...

Say Chi Sin Lo

That car? That's not even close to a good match. Something's happened. And from the difference in paint, the bumper looks like a much newer piece.

Also, $16k is kind of a lot for a ~80,000miles car. Especially when something like this is available:

https://www.karsrusmodesto1.com/2006...A_18628989.veh

Say Chi Sin Lo

You should get the word out on their pretentiousness. And CLEARLY hiding something about the car's past. I have a MBA, and this sort of business model absolutely pisses me off.

JRG2000

Too bad its half way across the country.
I'm going to keep looking and keep taking my time. I am in no rush and will know the right one when I find it. Besides, looking is part of the fun!
You guys on this site have been great. I'm going to stay plugged into this site and keep reading and visiting cars. My gut is telling me I'm going to end of pushing my budget higher to get just the right car and most likely will end up buying from an actual owner and not a dealer. As I said, I'm in sales and I can usually read good honest people when I meet them and that is always a big part of my buying decision.

GuthNW

I'm bummed for you JRG, but there are still a good number of these cars to be had out there. Be patient. Chances are that you'll find a much better deal if buying from a private party.

Are you sure that you linked to the right car? The car in the link doesn't really look like much of a deal — it's pretty beat up.