ap1 or ap2?
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,485
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From: hawaii
if you have the extra money get a ap2, i got a 2006 S and i love it! the VSA can be turned off and the system is a very good one that saved by butt a few times lol 
but yeah overall great interior a lot of upgrades in that department, also the engine feel more refined (from what i heard, since i never drove a ap1) and also i love the exterior light mods for the ap2 instead of the ap1. but it all comes down to the owner, its all up to you. choose wisely 
but yeah overall great interior a lot of upgrades in that department, also the engine feel more refined (from what i heard, since i never drove a ap1) and also i love the exterior light mods for the ap2 instead of the ap1. but it all comes down to the owner, its all up to you. choose wisely
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,485
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From: hawaii
Originally Posted by Saki GT,Oct 14 2008, 08:57 AM
It would have to spin at 9k to equal 9k. The F22C makes more power in a different place, which is one reason the redline is lower. Honda beefed up internals as well.
if you want a screamer, get this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kBejbwpPFM
if you want a screamer, get this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kBejbwpPFM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bkJB...eature=related
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,821
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From: Jacksonville, FL
I can't believe how many of these threads have come up over the last 4yrs and still how much misinformation is given...even from some old timers. 
First...whenever buying a used car buy the newest lowest mileage car you can afford.
There are subtle differences between the AP1 & AP2. They are probably more magnified to the owners than they would be to a non-owner. But drive both cars (with similar miles on both) to see which appeals to you.
Someone said that it's been proven that the AP2 responds to mods better. Not sure where it was proven.
But after seeing a lot of s2ks dynoed, before and after tuning, the results I've seen show the opposite. The AP1 starts at a lower hp to begin with...stock for stock, the average AP2 makes about 5-7whp more than a MY02-03 AP1, and about 10whp more than a MY00-01. Adding a VAFC (or other ecu tuning piggyback or standalone) give much higher gains in the early AP1 than the late AP1...and more in either AP1 over the AP2. Reason: the MY00-01 run very rich and the MY02-03 run a bit more rich than the AP2.
Also, bolt-ons, like a header, tends to make the s2k run more lean...ie, bigger gain in an AP1.
As far as at the end of the modding which makes the most has not been proven on the dyno I use. I've seen AP1s and AP2s with I/H/E with a tune making similar hp. It really depends on the mods. For example, I've seen really impressive final numbers with Megan parts on an AP1 where the same parts lost power on an AP2.
Someone mentioned the redline and fuel cut off...this has been discussed over and over. Redline on the AP2 is 8000rpm (per Honda's own website), fuel cutoff is 8200rpm. Redline on the AP1 is 8900rpm (that's right, not 9k), fuel cutoff is 9100rpm.
The gear grind has been a complaint from all owners...a quick search on s2ki shows many posts from both AP1 & AP2 owners complaining of the grind.
There are some very good reasons for the AP2...suspension changes make it easier to handle for the average driver; gearing changes and 10ft-lb more torque make it more pleasurable for the average American driver; 17" wheels offer a wider variety of high performance tires in good s2k sizes; thicker valve retainers and lower redline give protection on minor over-revs.
First...whenever buying a used car buy the newest lowest mileage car you can afford.
There are subtle differences between the AP1 & AP2. They are probably more magnified to the owners than they would be to a non-owner. But drive both cars (with similar miles on both) to see which appeals to you.
Someone said that it's been proven that the AP2 responds to mods better. Not sure where it was proven.
But after seeing a lot of s2ks dynoed, before and after tuning, the results I've seen show the opposite. The AP1 starts at a lower hp to begin with...stock for stock, the average AP2 makes about 5-7whp more than a MY02-03 AP1, and about 10whp more than a MY00-01. Adding a VAFC (or other ecu tuning piggyback or standalone) give much higher gains in the early AP1 than the late AP1...and more in either AP1 over the AP2. Reason: the MY00-01 run very rich and the MY02-03 run a bit more rich than the AP2.Also, bolt-ons, like a header, tends to make the s2k run more lean...ie, bigger gain in an AP1.
As far as at the end of the modding which makes the most has not been proven on the dyno I use. I've seen AP1s and AP2s with I/H/E with a tune making similar hp. It really depends on the mods. For example, I've seen really impressive final numbers with Megan parts on an AP1 where the same parts lost power on an AP2.
Someone mentioned the redline and fuel cut off...this has been discussed over and over. Redline on the AP2 is 8000rpm (per Honda's own website), fuel cutoff is 8200rpm. Redline on the AP1 is 8900rpm (that's right, not 9k), fuel cutoff is 9100rpm.
The gear grind has been a complaint from all owners...a quick search on s2ki shows many posts from both AP1 & AP2 owners complaining of the grind.
There are some very good reasons for the AP2...suspension changes make it easier to handle for the average driver; gearing changes and 10ft-lb more torque make it more pleasurable for the average American driver; 17" wheels offer a wider variety of high performance tires in good s2k sizes; thicker valve retainers and lower redline give protection on minor over-revs.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 533
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From: San Diego, California
Originally Posted by negcamber,Oct 14 2008, 05:46 PM
I can't believe how many of these threads have come up over the last 4yrs and still how much misinformation is given...even from some old timers.
First...whenever buying a used car buy the newest lowest mileage car you can afford.
There are subtle differences between the AP1 & AP2. They are probably more magnified to the owners than they would be to a non-owner. But drive both cars (with similar miles on both) to see which appeals to you.
Someone said that it's been proven that the AP2 responds to mods better. Not sure where it was proven. But after seeing a lot of s2ks dynoed, before and after tuning, the results I've seen show the opposite. The AP1 starts at a lower hp to begin with...stock for stock, the average AP2 makes about 5-7whp more than a MY02-03 AP1, and about 10whp more than a MY00-01. Adding a VAFC (or other ecu tuning piggyback or standalone) give much higher gains in the early AP1 than the late AP1...and more in either AP1 over the AP2. Reason: the MY00-01 run very rich and the MY02-03 run a bit more rich than the AP2.
Also, bolt-ons, like a header, tends to make the s2k run more lean...ie, bigger gain in an AP1.
As far as at the end of the modding which makes the most has not been proven on the dyno I use. I've seen AP1s and AP2s with I/H/E with a tune making similar hp. It really depends on the mods. For example, I've seen really impressive final numbers with Megan parts on an AP1 where the same parts lost power on an AP2.
Someone mentioned the redline and fuel cut off...this has been discussed over and over. Redline on the AP2 is 8000rpm (per Honda's own website), fuel cutoff is 8200rpm. Redline on the AP1 is 8900rpm (that's right, not 9k), fuel cutoff is 9100rpm.
The gear grind has been a complaint from all owners...a quick search on s2ki shows many posts from both AP1 & AP2 owners complaining of the grind.
There are some very good reasons for the AP2...suspension changes make it easier to handle for the average driver; gearing changes and 10ft-lb more torque make it more pleasurable for the average American driver; 17" wheels offer a wider variety of high performance tires in good s2k sizes; thicker valve retainers and lower redline give protection on minor over-revs.
First...whenever buying a used car buy the newest lowest mileage car you can afford.
There are subtle differences between the AP1 & AP2. They are probably more magnified to the owners than they would be to a non-owner. But drive both cars (with similar miles on both) to see which appeals to you.
Someone said that it's been proven that the AP2 responds to mods better. Not sure where it was proven.
But after seeing a lot of s2ks dynoed, before and after tuning, the results I've seen show the opposite. The AP1 starts at a lower hp to begin with...stock for stock, the average AP2 makes about 5-7whp more than a MY02-03 AP1, and about 10whp more than a MY00-01. Adding a VAFC (or other ecu tuning piggyback or standalone) give much higher gains in the early AP1 than the late AP1...and more in either AP1 over the AP2. Reason: the MY00-01 run very rich and the MY02-03 run a bit more rich than the AP2.Also, bolt-ons, like a header, tends to make the s2k run more lean...ie, bigger gain in an AP1.
As far as at the end of the modding which makes the most has not been proven on the dyno I use. I've seen AP1s and AP2s with I/H/E with a tune making similar hp. It really depends on the mods. For example, I've seen really impressive final numbers with Megan parts on an AP1 where the same parts lost power on an AP2.
Someone mentioned the redline and fuel cut off...this has been discussed over and over. Redline on the AP2 is 8000rpm (per Honda's own website), fuel cutoff is 8200rpm. Redline on the AP1 is 8900rpm (that's right, not 9k), fuel cutoff is 9100rpm.
The gear grind has been a complaint from all owners...a quick search on s2ki shows many posts from both AP1 & AP2 owners complaining of the grind.
There are some very good reasons for the AP2...suspension changes make it easier to handle for the average driver; gearing changes and 10ft-lb more torque make it more pleasurable for the average American driver; 17" wheels offer a wider variety of high performance tires in good s2k sizes; thicker valve retainers and lower redline give protection on minor over-revs.
My inputs on this is test drive both and see what you like better. I could only afford the AP1 without any type of lending from firms, that's 1 reason why I bought the AP1.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,359
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by thewhiteknight,Oct 13 2008, 01:24 PM
I have driven both, but the ap2 was the only one i was able to really "test" lol.... i didnt want to piss the salesman off in the ap1. does the extra torque in the f22 really make a difference you can feel?