ZDan

VTEC range is far from pointless. The AP2 would be able to stay in its powerband much better if it had a higher rev limit. Hitting redline immediately past peak power rpm is not good, you have to upshift and fall further down the power curve than you do with the AP1's rev limit.

Yes, of course the 2.2 F22C makes more torque/power below VTEC than the F20C, but its powerband still doesn't begin until 6000rpm, and is cut off prematurely at 8000rpm.

2.2 makes more peak power, but with the factory redline it doesn't put down more power on average due to lack of rpm headroom above peak power.

Heavier flywheel is a negative. It slows acceleration a tiny amount, and makes rev-matching slightly slower. It is a crutch for those who don't know how to drive a manual. 10% more displacement = totally cool. But this benefit is negated by much lower (more so than necessary for the increased stroke) rev limit, which *does* matter. The final drive (diff) has the exact same 4.1 ratio. The transmission gears in the AP2 are lower and give more mechanical advantage in the 1st four gears, but then you have to upshift sooner, so overall no benefit and wider gap from 4-5. Not a huge deal, but the AP1 trans ratios are arguably better suited to the AP2's torquier lower-revving engine...

It all adds up to NO improvement in acceleration performance, despite 10 more rwhp and improved power/weight.
If I ever have an AP2, first mod would be to bump the rev limiter up to 8600 or so rpm.

Syn

ZDan, I agree with most of your points, but this particular line is a bit misleading.

If you shift at fuel cut and/or shift quickly, the AP2 will always stay on the high cam. You will not drop below 6000 rpm. Your average power output will be higher than the AP1 in this scenario.

However, if you shift slowly or prematurely shift at 7900-8000 then you will fall out of VTEC for a split second (and your average power output plummets) which is entirely stupid and that's why I got Flashpro the same year I got the car.

ZDan

In the AP2, 1-2 shift, it's not happening. 8200rpm * (2.045/3.133) = 5352rpm. With a perfectly timed 2-3 shift at 8200rpm cutoff, you'll land right at 6000rpm where the 2.2 is making ~160rwhp. In the AP1, the same shift at 9000rpm puts you at 6500 where the 2.0 is making closer to 170rwhp. Going through the gears in the AP2, you'll be making more maximum power but less minimum power vs. the AP1. Which is why stock vs. stock they have the same acceleration times/speeds despite the fact that the AP2 makes 10 more peak horsepower.

Saki GT

VTEC can engage as early as 6k rpm if all conditions are met (temp, throttle, oil pressure). It doesn't disengage at 6k rpm though, it disengages at a lower rpm (5,700 rpm?), and a dyno doesn't really show how power is different between WOT shifts, just the one-time range.

Also, The AP2 primary gear ratio is higher, so there is more mechanical advantage in addition to the hp. AP2s have the same 0-60 as AP1s but there is a, what, quarter second, where there is no acceleration because of the extra gear change?

Also, I believe redline is 8,200, fuel cut is 8,300. Honda set the redline based on cylinder speed but 8,500 would have been better for power delivery. I assume Honda didn't see a need for the redline to be higher.

Overall the performance numbers are similar but the driving experience is different. 8% larger engine, higher compression ratio, 4% more aggressive gearing, revised cams, etc... It really shows how finely Honda tweaked the car.

s2ka

The driving experience is different. I found myself driving my AP2 a lot lazier, not vtec-ing as much, not as in tune with what the car was doing. That's ok for daily driving. But my AP1 is more engaging, more fun.

Crank up your volume and watch an AP1 go around the Nurburgring. Notice how much time is spent above 8,000 rpm. That's the magic of AP1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5cFzcZ8YY

Fokker

I'd blame that on you, not the car.

Lazyrider69

At end of day, wasn't the impetus for the revisions to the S2000 in the Ap2 to appease U.S. buyers desire for more torque and "daily driveabilty"........??????????

Which is exactly what Honda DID NOT set out to make in the AP1. Isn't that common knowledge amongst S2000 owners?.... AP1 was considered a "revelation" of sorts when it was first pitted up against BMW and Porsches..... By the time the AP2 came out, the car was no longer considered so cutting edge despite improvements in driveability....

In fact.... all of the accolades and awards went to the AP1 for how it was designed and drove when it was first introduced. Yes, the AP2 is an improved upon AP1... No doubt, but it depends on what you consider "improved".....

Go look and the old air cooled 911 and see what the more visceral and mechanical feeling Porsches are fetching right now..... The new 911 is a revelation, but true collectors and enthusiasts are paying crazy amounts for the cars they feel are more driver oriented.....
That was the beauty of the Ap1....

Maybe I watch too much TOP GEAR because even watching the new review of the ALFA Romeo 4c with NO Power Steering, they rave about road feel. The trunk is welded shut....... No confusion about the car's purpose........ Isn't that what the original s2000 was suppose to be.???

05thumper

This!

I VTEC my AP1 much more than I ever did my AP2. The AP1 just stirs up that emotion more. Maybe not best for DD but feels much more 'pure' to me.

Lazyrider69

Speaking of "pure" and the "essence" of what s2000 was conceptualized and built for......
Worth repeating... whoever said this first said it best......

The AP2 is a better car but the AP1 is a better S2000.

GSteg

LOL can't believe we're talking about minor difference in power between the two cars. Both cars aren't any faster than a Camry V6..


Driven both, the AP1 is still comfortable and the AP2 is raw enough. I would have been fine with either one.