Jay Li

tze, even if you can compare the improvements, I'm still highly skeptical. Like cdelena said, no one else has had such strong improvements from using a CAI and a new exhaust...I'd say the story lacks credibility.

nwk00

Let's wait and see what stk comes up with. I am not likely going to get the Motec but however I am interested to know whether it is possible to squeeze extra power reliably out of F20C.

E30M3

>>I'm still highly skeptical. Like cdelena said, no one else has had such strong improvements from using a CAI and a new exhaust...I'd say the story lacks credibility.<<

I think that we are all skeptical and rightly so. Having tuned many cars over the years I can tell you that it's not always best to slap on a part and come to a final conclusion if it gains, loses, or maintains output. Often the best results come from making sure that the parts work well together. Honda most likely tuned the car for longevity and low warranty claims. Leaning the car a bit to gain power would tend to raise EGTs, exhasut valve and piston temps. Most of the time. This can affect longevity. For example, aluminum pistons lose more and more strength as they are run hotter and hotter. In other words, if it turns out that you really can boost performance to the extent they did, this may not be a wise move if longevity and warranty factors are very important to you. To me it seems like the MOTEC and it's tuning are key. Few folks have custom tuned an S2000 in such a manner.

Stan

stk

With regard to the difference in dyno reading, I can only think of the following explanations:

1. Different make, year and type of dyno gives different power readings. This is a well known fact.
2. The Aussie ECU might have been tuned down because of the availability of high octane fuel. Most (if not all) high performance vehicles sold in Australia are set up for using 95 (or is it 96?) octane fuel. 98 octane fuel is available but not in every city, therefore, on the safe side they use 95 octane as a reference for tuning. Some vehicles are even tuned for the more common 93 octane fuel, which is available everywhere. This is evident in the new WRX (the US spec car produces significantly more hp than the Aus spec, even thought the two engine are the same).

Other possible explanations: oil on the dyno, the air temperature in the workshop and whether a fan was used (pretty stupid if they didn't).

Bieg

Can you get more power from the engine by leaning out the mixture? Sure,....for a little while. As I and others have stated above you run the risk of melting pistons. The incoming fuel charge helps to cool the pistons as that as well as heat transference through the rings into the cylinder walls and oil sprayed underneath them are the only ways the pistons get cooled. Lean out the mixture and you have eliminated the safety margin Honda designed in. Don't you think if it was safe to do so Honda would have wanted to lean the mixture out to get even more power and lower emissions? They had to ballance that out with engine longevity. They are trying to do you a favor.

This guy down under aint' gonna care if you melt a piston 6 months down the road. He just says you will get more power and you probably will but he don't make any guarantees about how long it is going to last.

I guess Honda figured when they made their ECU hard to tamper with that it was making it "Fool Proof", but as the old saying goes that anyone who thinks they can design something "Fool Proof" underestimates the inginuity of fools.

funcar

I have been thinking about the Motec thing for a while. Some friends of mine have been putting them on cars for a long time. But, the last time I talked to them about it I was told if I don't plan on keeping the car not to do it. If the EVO VII comes I won't keep it. I was also told to expect to spend about $5k for Motec and programming it and they have yet to get anything less than a 20 to 30 hp increase on any car they have put one on. As far as longevity goes they have a few high mileage cars out there.

The Reverend

First off, I hate when someone posts that "I don't believe this! If mugen can't do it, no one can!" Mugen makes very good parts, but I think even Scott from King will tell you this is not a good way to think about things.

Second, big gains with a Motec are absolutely possible. lean the car out, advance the timing, get rid of some of the emissions provisions, whatever. Motec is well known as the best ECU you can get, but as someone else said - it's VERY difficult to tune. Also, one thing no one here has brought up is that the reason no one here in the states uses it is because it's about $4000 and you still have to tune it after that. People in Australia use it a lot because it's made in Australia and is a lot cheaper for them.

A little over a year ago a guy posted pictures and info on his turbo s2000 on the Endyn board. He was making 345 at the wheels with an HKS turbo and a Motec ECU. At the time he was still on stock internals, but I think he said he was looking into doing a full rebuild. It was a beautifully fabricated setup with the best of everything, but it never would have made that much power without the Motec computer.

Sev

Phhhhmmmmmf, phmfffff. I smell something.

Red_s2k

"And with the shapely coupe ..."

Well maybe they dyno'ing the new S2200 Coupe!!

btw the cai mod seems like an easy trip to the h/w store.

ultimate lurker

1. As others have said, the Motec gain is totally believable, especially if it is setup with a wideband O2 sensor for continual closed loop operation. Some board members here have reported 6-7 hp gains just from fuel tuning with an Apex AFC-VTEC as a reference.

2. The exhaust claim is bogus. 20 hp before tuning the Motec? I think not. Simply won't happen with the stock ECU. I try to never say never, but we have enough data on this one to call BS.

3. 8 hp from routing a cold air duct to the stock airbox? Doubtful, at least on a dyno. The stock system does get cool air anyways and if all you're doing is adding an extension to the stock intake (i.e. not removing any restrictions or changing resonance properties) and testing in a stationary mode you won't see a 4-5% gain.

4. Dyno gains. That's all chassis dynos are really good for, comparing before and after, but if the 153 hp car is really representative of what a stock S2K will put down on this dyno, then you're looking at an S2K which now produces approximately 285-290 hp without changing any internals, the TB, intake manifold, header, etc. Again, I think not. If the baseline is closer to 173 hp (post exhaust, which usually sees minimal gains anyways), then you'd be looking at a 265 hp car which is more believable.

5. Cost/benefit. If you're going to drop $4000-$5000 on a Motec for anything but a dedicated race car, you might as well throw the Comptech SC or a turbo on there. Then you can get bigger gains, run safely, have no drivability issues or MAP sensor problems.

6. Leaning out. Stock Honda engines tend to run excessively rich at high rpm. The mixture is probably in the 12:1 range, or even richer. Simply going to a 12.5-13:1 A/F ratio will boost power without compromising reliability - but your margin of safety in the event of bad gas, abnormally high engine temps, etc. is reduced. I run a wideband O2 verified 12.8:1 ratio on my other car and it runs strong all day long at the racetrack (and it has FI).

7. Timing. Honda tends to retard top end timing dramatically just before the rev limiter. Often by as much as 10 degrees or more. This is another safety measure, but taking out some of the retard isn't going to hurt anything and should help power.

8. MOTEC tuning. The guys who can do this get paid $100+/hour and it can take 4-8 hours to tune a car, and you also have to pay for the dyno time. A big add on cost.

UL