Siper2

Yeah, some touchy responses to that one, for sure. Any car owner will do that, though. Some BMW guys have come in here doing the same thing, and the S2000 crowd jumped on them, too.

There are ups and downs to both cars, whether the owners like it or not.

chazzy

Rick, I expected more from you. Referencing Veblen's statements on conspicuous consumption and somehow trying to mold every BMW owner to it? I find it amusing that while you point at BMW owners for attempting to attain status, you're the one that makes the S badges to help S2000 owners lose the stigma associated with Honda as a "droptop Civic" (among other things that I've heard).

There are a LOT of BMW owners that buy for status and the "prestige" of owning a BMW (for whatever that's worth). I see it all the time and it's a very popular yuppie thing to do. Attempting to characterize nearly a million purchases a year into a single bucket is silly, though.

I've actually responded in defense of the S2000 to a lot of messages on the BMW boards that discount the S2000's abilities. Here I am defending BMW's abilities. I like fair opinions on cars and I think it's fruitless to start bringing in "BMW owners are just gold-diggers" and "S2000 owners are just riceboys with deeper pockets." If you actually want to hear why I bought an M Coupe over an S2000, I'd be more than happy to tell you about it. Then you can reply with responses, not prejudices.

chazzy

Yes, the M Coupe is incredibly dichotomizing when it comes to opinions about looks. I happen to like it and I've heard "cute car" from a LOT of chicks. Then again, I've heard, "WTF?" too. Oh well, I don't really care. I didn't buy it for them to look at.

Anybody sign up for the Evolution Autocross Schools? I'll be at the Boston one for Phase I and II.

Need4Spd

There are pros and cons for both the M Roadster and S2000. Both are quality cars and aimed at the enthusiast. The main difference that people will notice besides the styling is the choice of engine approach. Honda chose to put in a near racing engine w/high power output but at very high rpm. BMW chose to go with more low end torque. Both cars are challenging to drive. At night, the S2k has the edge because of the HID lights. New Ms cost a ton of money, but after a few years come down S2K MSRP territory, while S2Ks seem to cost the same amount even if used for a few years. So, if you have about $33k to spend, you can get a 1999 M Roadster or if you shop carefully and are willing to go somewhere out of the way, like for me on the west coast, Ohio, you can have a new S2k. Still haven't decided, but there's no reason to rag on either car or their owners. Oh, and about the M Coupe. I don't care for its styling, either, but I can appreciate that there are some that do.

cthree

You haven't been around much have you? What exactly were you expecting? If someone came here and said the S2000 handled like an Accord the response would be searing. If you don't believe me check out the Street Encounters forum, that's what it's for.

We buy our cars for various reasons and we have different tastes. The M coupe is a powerful car with handling good enough that it can beat an S2000 on the track. Get off it people, this argument, and others like it, can't be won. If you don't like the way it looks don't buy it but making silly comparisons makes no sense.

chazzy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Need4Spd
[B]New Ms cost a ton of money, but after a few years come down S2K MSRP territory, while S2Ks seem to cost the same amount even if used for a few years.

Ldogdotcom

Not to get too off point here, but this thread on bimmer.org was on the M Coupe forum, not the M Roadster. Once again, you have people comparing two completely different cars. I'm an active member of both this board and bimmer.org, so I've seen (and been on) both sides of the fence.

Obviously, you can determine which car I like better- and that has come with experience with both cars. Different folks, different strokes... and if that wasn't the case there would have been more than 2500 M Coupes total (!) made. It's a niche car, and the people who have them are just as much enthusiasts (if not more ) as the S2000 owners.

People don't buy the M Coupe because it's a BMW, they buy it because it's an M Coupe. 3 series people, 5 series people, 7 series people... (disclaimer: blanket statement about to be made) they are to BMW what Civics, Accords and Acura TL people are to Honda. If I own an M Coupe (which I do), does that mean I bought it for staus? Hell no. I bought it because I grew tired of my S2000. And it just wasn't because of going through 2 transmission in 14,000 miles. I just got bored with it. But alas, I still change my own oil (even though BMW is nice enough to do it for me) and I still get under the car, do the brakes, get dirty, etc. Why? I'm a car guy who happens to own a BMW, not a target market BMW owner.

Anyway, everyone want's their car to be the best. I'm sure I can get together with chazzy and (in my opinion and also using facts) we can write volumes on how the M Coupe is a better car than the S2000 is. But on the other hand, for every point that we might come up with, there will be an S2000 owner to counter. Such is life.

And the fact that people think I'm a high roller because I own a BMW? It's a nice by-product of my passion for the car. And how about the looks from a sexy little 20-30 something in a CLK? It's a nice by-product also... and strangely enough I didn't get any of those when I owned my "Honda."

Oh, by the way... is the owner of a yellow S2000 with Neuspeed exhaust (I think) who was on Glades Boulevard in Boca Raton on Thursday here? I'm the Estoril Blue M Coupe that you revved on as you passed me. You're lucky I didn't end up next to you at the red light before I-95

Rick Hesel

chazzy,

You shouldn't have taken that post so seriously. Conspicuous consumption is a social disease that's spread through our whole culture, but it's a very safe bet that more BMW or Lexus owners are afflicted with it than, say, owners of Hondas or Toyotas. Does that mean all BMW owners buy their cars for status? Certainly not. I'm sure at least several dozen every year buy a BMW primarily for its performance and handling. But nobody ever bought a Honda expecting that it help them fit in with the crowd at the yacht club.

The S-badges are a wonderful way to puncture the whole status obession, because when people learn that this beautiful, very expensive looking car is a Honda, they have question their own social assumptions a bit. It pokes fun at the very idea of status. I like to think of it as a form of social deconstruction.

The S-badges were not intended to hide the fact that the S2000 is a Honda; they were meant to dramatically reference the S-series Honda sportcar tradition in a way that Honda never did. In fact, we're about to come out with the Classic Honda script badge that was on the earlier S series cars, and I will be the first to wear that badge proudly on my own car.

mav

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick Hesel
[B]Precisely, they paid a lot more for a status purchase (evidence that would make Thorsten Veblen smile) and got a worse car, one that doesn't handle or perform as well and is less reliable.

Need4Spd

My feelings exactly. If I end up with an S2k, then the same can be said about that, too!

As for the M Coupe, the above posters are right. It really is a niche car, and to me, it doesn't really compete with the S2K because it's not an open/no roof car. The more relevant comparison for me is the M Roadster. But I can see why someone would want a coupe instead. And it is a relative bargain because of its lack of broad appeal.