CAI Chat Discussion
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CAI Chat Discussion
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Happy Holidays All, Wait - Wrong Chat Room
Welcome Back Utah -Due to your previous engagements
17:50:58 [jschmidt] In the end, I'm guessing the best solution would be a NACA duct in the hood.
17:51:20 [jschmidt] Yea, I meant the behind-the-radiator solutions
17:51:48 [Sev] NACA duct?
17:51:54 gpiazza enters this room
17:52:06 [funsdead] im back
17:52:07 [racer-rob] where can i find install directions for the aem?
17:52:12 [funsdead] what cai's do u guys have?
17:52:23 [racer-rob] <<--has none
18:10:08 [racer-rob] you know the thing you put in your window to reflect the sun??
18:10:15 [Sev] which is how many pounds? 7-8?
18:10:16 silverbullet enters this room
18:10:34 [Sev] That works great
18:10:43 [What The] that thing is huge! Once you take that box out, you can literally fit a briefcase in there
18:10:43 [Sev] Doesn't loook too good though
18:10:45 [racer-rob] are you serious sev???
18:10:54 [Schatten] rstark - did you leave the car on for a while, and then sit at a light for a while to show them? well that would be just for heat but still.
18:10:55 [Sev] Yes
18:11:01 [What The] Sev: every little bit counts
18:11:01 [axcilla] From all I have read, the CAI only works well in VTEC ?
18:11:05 [rstark] What about Iceman intakes? Aren't they made of a different material?
18:11:12 [racer-rob] i agree sev, looks bad, havent tried the performance of it though
18:11:16 [Sev] It is cheap too cdelena and a few others have it
18:11:17 Utah S2K enters this room
18:11:39 [rstark] Schatten, yes, couldn't reproduce the problem, it hasn't acted up in the last week or two
18:11:40 [What The] Dave: I can feel more torque around 3-6k range
18:11:42 [racer-rob] do you have that done sev?
18:11:44 [Utah S2K] Sorry I'm late.........
18:11:47 [axcilla] Welcome Back Utah -Due to your previous engagements
18:11:49 [What The] yo Utah!
18:11:49 [Tanqueray] axcilla, I thought there was a nice bump at 4k.
18:11:55 [Sev] I have always wanted to say the following:
18:12:20 [Schatten] racer-bob - I have it on my car, most of the guys in Houston and Dallas have them on there as well. it helps, at least for me, and if you do it right and fold it back, (I'll take pictures) and pin it down, it prevents heat from going towards the nose of the car from the engine bay at stops
18:12:26 [axcilla] 4k - not bad 0whuch CAI tanq?
18:12:51 [racer-rob] why do people call me racer-BOB???
18:12:57 [Utah S2K] Thanks Ax man.....good to back home!
18:13:01 [What The] lol!
18:13:08 [Schatten] racer-bob - get the large heat shield. I was worried about melting and/or just heat issues with it, but no issues at all, esp the guys in Houston with 104 degrees of heat in standstill traffic.
18:13:08 [rstark] Schatten, maybe I did the heat shield wrong, I'll look forward to your pictures
18:13:11 [axcilla]>[Utah S2K] I'm copying all of this chat -to post for those who wanted to read it (posts read) - unless otherwise??
18:13:25 [racer-rob] are you in houston schatten
18:13:25 [Schatten] sorry racer-Rob - mistake.
18:13:32 [Sev] ***** IMO, the stock s2000 intake system is VERY well designed and the engineers have spent a lot of time perfecting it and it works VERY well at high speeds, Proof of this is that the s2000, even with a Cd of 0.38 can run with cars that it shouldn't be able to at high speeds*****
18:13:32 [Sev] ***** IMO, the stock s2000 intake system is VERY well designed and the engineers have spent a lot of time perfecting it and it works VERY well at high speeds, Proof of this is that the s2000, even with a Cd of 0.38 can run with cars that it shouldn't be able to at high speeds*****
18:13:48 [Tanqueray] axcilla, both. Check the dynos in the Car Talk thread.
18:14:09 [What The] Sev: forgive my ignorance what's CD?
18:14:17 [Sev] *****The only problem it has is the heat that comes up from the radiator at low speeds, once the car gets moving at about 50-60mph, this is no longer a huge problem**** Sev out
18:14:24 [Spoiled] isnt that coefficient of drag
18:14:25 [Spoiled] ?
18:14:27 [Sev] Coefficient of drag
18:14:29 [Utah S2K] I have one of Mingsters prototypes and it seems to add a bit, especially above 30 MPH....
18:14:33 [Spoiled] or something?
18:15:02 [Schatten] Sev, it might be more like, under 30mph. different correlation, but the fans are only good for speeds under 30mph, over 30mph, air cools engine bay quite sufficiently.
18:15:06 [Spoiled] okay.. haha maybe not
18:15:21 axcilla exits from this room
18:15:24 axcilla enters this room
18:15:39 [Sev] I have been doing a lot of testing with a temperature probe, the magic number seems to be around 50-60 mph...
18:15:43 j76ms enters this room
18:15:46 [What The] Sev: I agree, but i really feel the AEM.injen designs are excellent. The tube does not get hot!
18:15:49 9k to heaven enters this room
18:15:58 bkw enters this room
18:16:00 [racer-rob] what about an extension that is heat proof?????
18:16:03 [9k to heaven] that's it!!!!!!!!
18:16:07 [Utah S2K] Welcome j76 and 9K......and bkw....
18:16:13 [9k to heaven] thanks
18:16:18 [bkw] hey utah
18:16:27 [Schatten] you could wrap it, coat it or make it in a cheap CF that would be somewhat flexible.
18:16:30 [What The] hi 9k, bkw, j76
18:16:30 [Utah S2K] What up bk?
18:16:34 [bkw] nada
18:16:35 [9k to heaven] I got arrested for " reckless driving " doing 75mph on the highway sunday
18:16:38 What The enters this room
18:16:38 What The exits from this room
18:16:39 [Schatten] or have some give in it, not necessarily flexible.
18:18:41 [Spoiled] you should get a lawyer
18:18:45 [9k to heaven] i already did
18:18:46 [axcilla] Now that is true Highway Robbery
18:18:51 [Schatten] was the car towed properly? or damage?
18:18:54 [Schatten] that is what I worry about.
18:18:59 [Spoiled] what was his reasons for your reckless behavior?
18:19:01 [9k to heaven] no damage as far as i can tell
18:19:01 [Utah S2K] What was the limit? 55?
18:19:05 [bkw] anyone here go to the fall colors meet?
18:19:06 [What The] You have to drive through and keep your filter underwater for it to suck 3in diameter of water through the piping and into the engine
18:19:07 [9k to heaven] speed limit was 60
18:19:16 [Spoiled] oh my god....where do you live man?
18:19:19 [9k to heaven] and he was coming from oncoming direction at that
:19:24 [Sev] It was a lot of fun, thank you Rick
18:19:27 [What The] that sucks 9K!
18:19:28 [bkw] we were flying thru the course at triple the speed limit at points
18:19:31 [Schatten] 15 mph over? hmmm.
18:19:37 [bkw] sev, what group were you in?
18:19:39 [Tanqueray] The Injen and AEM intakes are at least a foot off the ground, and protected by the undertray.
18:19:39 [9k to heaven] it took him less then one highway exit( about 1/2mile) to exit and turn around and catch up to me
18:19:45 [racer-rob] all in all i think the stock airbox is going to be hard to beat, i just need to fabricat4e an extension that will allow cooler air in
18:19:52 XIB18c1 enters this room
18:19:55 [9k to heaven] what kind of bs is that
18:20:00 [bkw] oh sev.. i remember you..
18:20:04 [Spoiled] sometimes I feel that cops are so naive
18:20:08 [Sev] Moderate, Laguna seca, we still went 80-90 mph in 30 mph zones...
18:20:08 [XIB18c1] hello all
18:20:10 [What The] Tanq: exactly
18:20:10 [9k to heaven] he didn't even read me my rights, didn't tell me what I was getting arrested ofr
18:20:11 [9k to heaven] for*
18:20:14 stbrnd enters this room
18:20:16 [Spoiled] and undeducated
18:20:17 [Utah S2K] Welcome XIB.....subject is CAI's
18:20:20 [Spoiled] haha
18:20:21 [bkw] your hat and your rollbar plexiglass wind buffering thingamajig
18:20:22 [Spoiled] look at me
18:20:25 [Spoiled] Uneducated
18:20:28 [Schatten] did you post bail?
18:20:29 StormBringer enters this room
18:20:31 [9k to heaven] as soon as i stopped he said, "it's not as fast as you think"
18:20:40 [bkw] i was the one who blew 5 tires
18:20:41 S2kRob enters this room
18:20:42 [bkw]
18:20:42 [9k to heaven] then he threw me in the back of the car and that was it
18:20:52 [rstark] can we get back on topic????
18:20:56 [9k to heaven] and i said am i getting arrested? he didn't reply
18:20:58 [What The] RR: the stock box is very very good, but the aem/injen is indeed better
18:21:00 [Sev] Ohhhhhhhh
18:21:01 [Utah S2K] 9K you should move to a chat room to the right....I'll help
18:21:02 [racer-rob] ye srstark
18:21:07 [Sev] You are the guy
18:21:09 [Schatten] hmmm, well did you notice if he had a camera on in his car? thing slike that?
18:21:11 [axcilla] 9k to heaven - The Trip TO Hell
18:21:16 [9k to heaven] no he didn't
18:21:20 [9k to heaven] no bail either
18:21:24 Utah S2K exits from this room
18:21:25 [9k to heaven] took them 4 hours to book me
18:21:37 [Schatten] well, the four hours you can't complain about.
18:21:39 [9k to heaven] my god i'm pissed
18:21:40 lane enters this room
18:21:41 [axcilla] And now back to the CAI discussion
18:21:50 [9k to heaven] brb
18:21:52 [racer-rob] what the, i doubt the guys at aem are better than the guys at honda, but i could be wrong, maybe honda had a cost issue with the intake
18:21:53 [Schatten] speedy as it isn't, its not that long. but the rights, that's what you can get off on
18:21:56 [bkw] anyone see the injen or aem units personally?
18:22:06 [Schatten] and lack of telling you why you were taken in custody.
18:22:11 [What The] bkw: i have one
18:22:21 [Schatten] nope I haven't seen them personally, but I sell them both. =)
18:22:23 Utah S2K enters this room
18:22:34 [What The] RR: Honda has never done a "tube" style intake
18:22:42 [Tanqueray] Schatten, are you guys shipping yet?
18:22:43 [Sev] I am not going to dispute either way, but IMO the stock box is very well designed, better then 99.9% of cars out there, AEM and Injen will not do to this car what it would do to a civic or a prelude...
18:22:44 [racer-rob] schatten, you sell them???
18:22:49 [bkw] can you tell me about the pipe that bends right before the radiator? does it keep its circumference all the way down the bend or does it flatten out a little?
18:22:58 [Schatten] next Monday we'll have them.
18:23:03 [racer-rob] what do you call the stock intake what the??
18:23:05 [stbrnd] i have seen diff. threads saying the intake takes 15min to 3 hrs to install (AEM) which is true
18:23:19 [axcilla] I saw the Injen Intake at NOPI - it was O.k. but not worth the cost - my opinion
18:23:21 S2k Dude enters this room
18:23:26 [bkw] stbrnd, i think it depends if youre familiar with the removal of the bumper
18:23:31 [racer-rob] how good are you with your hands stbrnd??
18:23:33 [Schatten] I would say, looking at the installs, it would take several hours for either one.
18:23:35 [Utah S2K] Welcome dude.......
18:23:40 [What The] bkw: it keeps the same circumference all the way down
18:23:46 [Tanqueray] D*mn. I thought Ben said that they were already in stock. I have been waiting for it to show up already.
18:23:58 [Schatten] well, new orders - next week
18:23:58 [bkw] hmm.. i wonder if i can make one myself then..
18:24:05 [Schatten] apparently he got ahold of three of them.
18:24:09 [axcilla]>[S2k Dude] SOrry, but one of your s2000 atlanta guys grills is being shipped to your house. His name will be in the package
18:24:09 [Utah S2K] How hard is the bumper removal?
18:24:11 [stbrnd] good with hands, never took the bumper off before
18:24:16 [Schatten] I'm just holding off expectations for new orders till next week.
18:24:16 [bkw] utah, simple
18:24:23 [What The] Schatten: it took me about 3 hours to do
18:24:26 [bkw] i can take off the bumper in about 5-7 minutes
18:24:28 [Tanqueray]
18:24:28 [9k to heaven] back
18:24:29 MyBad enters this room
18:24:36 [What The] 15 mins to take the bumper off
18:24:37 [9k to heaven] so CAI is the topic eh
18:24:37 [honda_s2k] Damn! This place is chaos! Later!
18:24:38 [Schatten] bumper removal isn't that hard, but better if you have two people to jar the corners in and out.
18:24:40 honda_s2k exits from this room
18:24:51 [Sev] Here are the problems with those pieces, 1: Made of metal, 2: Too long 3: Too many bends, 4:Posibilty of water...
18:24:54 [9k to heaven] i'm gonna go post my exhaust for sale
18:24:55 [9k to heaven] ;l
18:24:57 [stbrnd] I think one thread suggested that the bumper wouldnt have to come off??
18:24:57 mingster enters this room
18:25:00 [bkw] the corners are the hardest part.. but once you do it once, you'll figure out how to wedge it out
18:25:00 [Tanqueray] bkw: do you have pictures?
18:25:03 [S2k Dude]>[axcilla] No problem, I'll run it over to his house when it gets here.
18:25:05 [Utah S2K] Welcome My bad......
18:25:08 [What The] yo Mingster!
18:25:12 [Schatten] racer-Rob =) yeup, sell em via bulletproofautomotive.com
18:25:13 [bkw] of bumper removal?
18:25:21 [mingster]
18:25:21 [Schatten] hi rich
18:25:24 [Utah S2K] Mingster........enters....all bow down (LOL)
18:25:26 [Sev] Hi Mingster
18:25:31 [bkw] no, but follow the horn faq.. its real descriptive
18:25:32 [9k to heaven] man
18:25:38 [mingster] hi guys!
18:25:40 [9k to heaven] i got the stillen / mingster cai setup
18:25:41 [Tanqueray] Yep
18:25:43 [9k to heaven] it works wonder
18:26:01 [Sev]
18:26:05 [Tanqueray] Cool, thanks!
18:26:06 [axcilla] lo mingster
18:26:07 [racer-rob] air flow???? if you start your car isnt the air in the intake already??? ram air?? c;mon, i think our cars only can suck up so much air
18:26:08 [bkw] mingster, did you make the cai duct or did you have someone make it for you?
18:26:29 gpiazza enters this room
18:26:34 [mingster] someone is making it for me, i'm not that talented
18:26:41 [bkw] i made a cf duct but i kinda messed up
18:26:44 [Utah S2K] Welcome gpiazza
18:26:45 [bkw] it rubs the hood
18:26:47 [bkw]
18:26:51 [9k to heaven] mine does too but not that bad
18:26:52 [Schatten] you aren't redlining your car or leaning it out at idle either with lots of air. the ecu will adjust to that.
18:27:00 [axcilla] racer-bob you bring up a good point, you can only allow as much air into the engine as the exhaust will let out
18:27:05 [gpiazza] Thanks
18:27:06 [lane] air ram effect is at speed, it compresses the air, getting more oxegen into the same amount of space.
18:27:19 [9k to heaven] brb
17:52:33 [racer-rob] what do you have funs?
17:52:37 [Tanqueray] No, the AEM and Injen CAIs don't need any cutting.
17:52:39 [funsdead] nada
17:52:46 [jschmidt] Couldn't even explain a NACA duct. It's the funny shaped duct seen on lots of race cars and jets.
17:52:52 [Tanqueray] AEM is on the way.
17:52:53 [funsdead] u have to cut the plastic in the fenderwell
17:52:58 [racer-rob] im seriously thinking about the aem, though
17:53:06 [funsdead] for aem and injen
17:53:57 [Tanqueray] Sorry, no metal cutting.
17:54:36 [racer-rob] i have to wait a couple of weeks before i can buy it though, that sucks
17:55:10 [racer-rob] does the aem come with the by-pass valve? just curious
17:55:22 [jschmidt] Gotta go. See you all
17:55:24 [Tanqueray] Sev, you don't think the dynos are valid?
17:55:27 [racer-rob] bye j
17:55:45 rstark enters this room
17:56:01 [rstark] hi all
17:56:14 [racer-rob] hello rstark
17:56:31 [racer-rob] does anyone here have the aem installed and dynoed?
17:56:46 honda_s2k enters this room
17:56:58 What The enters this room
17:57:03 axcilla enters this room
17:57:07 [What The] Yo!
17:57:12 [What The] RR i have the AEM
17:57:14 [Tanqueray] Another guy in Phoenix got his today and says he will get it dynoed.
17:57:21 [racer-rob] does anyone have the aem installed and dynoed??
17:57:29 [racer-rob] hello all
17:57:33 [Sev] I didn't say they are not valid, the question is, why dyno with the bumper off????? The only thing it does is make the difference between stock and CAIs make better... Not accurate for sure
17:57:37 [axcilla] Happy Holidays All, Wait - Wrong Chat Room
17:57:45 [What The] rr, i have the AEM, but i have yet to dyno it
17:57:45 [Tanqueray] What The: did you notice a difference?
17:57:45 [Tanqueray] What The: did you notice a difference?
17:57:59 [racer-rob] lol@axcilla
17:58:05 [What The] Tan: yes i felt a noticeable difference in low end torque
17:58:06 [rstark] rr there was a thread on the injen and aem with dyno charts
17:58:40 [What The] It's not a questionable "is it just me" feeling. You CAN feel a difference
17:58:43 [racer-rob] yeah, we are just trying to find an actual member who can back the dynos up
17:59:00 [rstark] oh
17:59:06 [Tanqueray] Cool! What kind of weather was it?
17:59:13 [What The] I will have dynos next week. my suspension is messed up right now
17:59:18 [racer-rob] well not a memeber, but rather an owner, not a business
17:59:42 [racer-rob] how does is sound at idle what the
17:59:44 Schatten enters this room
17:59:44 StormBringer enters this room
17:59:47 [What The] yo Axcilla!
17:59:52 [Schatten] howdee
17:59:56 [What The] RR, it's a nice hum at idle
17:59:57 [Tanqueray] Hey, Randy
18:00:05 [What The] screams at Vtec
18:00:06 [Schatten] hmmmm smallville, or... s2ki chat *ponders*
18:00:07 [funsdead] hideeeeeeeeeeeee HO everyone
18:00:08 [axcilla]>[What The] How are you Kelvin
18:00:12 [racer-rob] btw i installed polk speakers today,lol
18:00:13 [rstark] hey schatten
18:00:21 [axcilla] lo guys
18:00:28 [What The] nice growl at 3-6
18:00:38 [StormBringer] to get the polks in did you have to cut out the speaker shelf
18:00:40 [What The] same old shit, different day, Dave
18:00:53 [racer-rob] what the , is it a better hum than the hum we get with the airbox cover off?
18:00:54 [funsdead] hey axcilla
18:01:10 [racer-rob] storm, i cut the basket a little
18:01:14 [What The] RR: along the same lines, but a little bit louder
18:01:18 [funsdead] did u guys get the 02's in down there yet?
18:01:23 [Schatten] oddly enough to comment on the dyno #'s - I would say that the CAI differences would only make differences on the drag strip rather than the dyno-measures due to the forced cold air at higher speeds.
18:01:23 [axcilla]>[funsdead] how are you daniel
18:01:25 [What The] it's a very nice sound
18:01:30 [funsdead] can't find one in raleigh yet
18:01:36 [StormBringer] Any trouble with the glass, also how think is the stock speaker cabling
18:01:42 [axcilla] I haven't seen a MY02 Yet
18:01:54 [racer-rob] what if you have a head wind schatten,lol
:02:42 [Schatten] well, it would be consistent.
18:02:43 [racer-rob] no troubles storm, at first i thought it wasnt that big of a difference, but after driving around its a lot more crisp
18:02:43 [StormBringer] thick not think sorry
18:02:53 [Tanqueray] Do we need to put insulation on the CAI tubes?
18:02:55 [Schatten] thing would be to look at is the speed, not the ET.
18:03:04 [honda_s2k] How do you dyno a CAI anyways? Air Tunnel?
18:03:10 [Schatten] speed reflects HP, ET reflects torque - at least in a general sense.
18:03:15 [funsdead]>[axcilla] does your new product work with the oem lip in the front?
18:03:33 [Sev] what schatten says is true, a typical CAI like AEM should show no difference on a dyno, only at speed with a device like the AP-22 by race technologies...
18:03:50 [What The] Tanq: i don't think we'll need insulation
18:03:56 [axcilla]>[funsdead] the front spoiler offer with the Dealer?
18:03:57 [racer-rob] what i did storm i connect one and compared the stock v. the new one, it was hard to tell doing it that way but with both of them, its a big improvement
18:04:31 [funsdead]>[axcilla] yep yep
18:04:32 [What The] Tanq: i went for a nice hour drive and came back. the tube was warm, but not scolding
18:04:39 [axcilla]>[funsdead] we are working on one that does, our S2000 doesn't have the oem lip
18:04:53 [Sev] Another thing, the stock s2000 airbox is already a RAM AIR system that is possibly in a better Pressure area then the break ducts... Just something to think about
18:04:55 [funsdead]>[axcilla] cool....gotcha
18:05:00 [Schatten] Sev, got one of the AP-22's? I was looking at it today.
18:05:15 [Sev] I was going to get one
18:05:20 [Schatten] very true Sev.
18:05:25 [funsdead] be back in a bit cool guys.......
18:05:30 [Sev] Then winter came :-), and I said I will wait till next year
18:05:30 [racer-rob] well with the aem i think you would get better air flow, maybe thats where the dyno show improvement
18:05:31 [Tanqueray] How is the stock box a ram system?
18:05:58 [axcilla] Some Kind Of Agreement ? ;p - Which CAI is the most bang for the buck - we have some motorheads here
18:06:00 [Schatten] I currently have the 8 dollar wal mart modification and notice no more studdering starts at stop lights - that helped that issue.
18:06:08 Spoiled enters this room
18:06:09 [axcilla]
18:06:20 [honda_s2k] How much air friction can you expect in a 120mph run? It's not going to matter if you insulate.
18:06:20 [Sev] But the tube is longer, even if you were to gain 1 psi at the filter, who says you won't loose it after all those curves and length
18:06:28 [Schatten] Tanq - ever seen say.. a Miata or a Mustang intake box? its quite out of place
18:06:32 [What The] I think for around $250 you can't beat the AEM
18:06:32 [racer-rob] anyone ever heard of prm?
18:06:41 [What The] RR, yes
18:06:46 [rstark] schatten, I did that mod to, but still had hesitation
18:06:48 [Sev] PRM=Garbage
18:07:01 [racer-rob] why do you say that sev?
18:07:04 [What The] like what Sev said about PRM
18:07:06 [Tanqueray] honda-s2k: I wasn't talking about air friction. I was talking about heat soak from the tube being in the engine compartment.
18:07:14 [Schatten] The Mustang box is in the corner fenderwell - small inlet, big box, small tube out there. Miata, same thing, but its a smaller tube opening that is placed right next to the exhaust.
18:07:19 [racer-rob] i had one on my prelude, seemed to work really well
18:07:40 [Schatten] rstark - ever twitch with the MAP sensor?
18:07:50 [rstark] tap on it?
18:07:54 [Sev] Yes, on a Prelude, type R, Si and most Hondas, it is a guarannteed improvement
18:08:00 [Schatten] yea, at least.
18:08:03 [What The] I think that with the filter being in the brake duct area, the air is very much cooler
18:08:12 [Schatten] could be map sensor or the IAT. not in my experience but the words of the board.
18:08:16 [racer-rob] on the s2000, not the same deal??
18:08:24 [Sev] ever our box is already well set-up, its only problem is hot air from the radiator at speeds below 60mph...
18:08:25 [rstark] Not yet, I will though
18:08:29 [What The] and the tubing does not heat up as the tubing is routed away from the engine bay
18:09:03 [rstark] I took the car to Honda and they could not reproduce the hesitation problem since the weather's a little cooler now
18:09:13 [racer-rob] well sev, what about the window heat shield i have seen post about on here
18:09:26 [Tanqueray] The engine end of the tube is in a hot area. It can't be avoided.
18:09:46 [Sev] window heat shield?
18:09:53 [What The] Another side to this: even IF the CAI does not make any more hp (which i CAN feel) you save the weight of the stock airbox
18:27:28 [mingster] in case you guys haven't heard, i did dyno the spoon/ID intake, no losses and no gains (as expected).
18:27:29 [Utah S2K] Rich, did you ever look up the Indy guy I gave you (i.e. digrappas friend)?
18:27:29 [Schatten] bkw - how was working with CF? I've read tutorials on how to make stuff with them, but as expensive as they say? and difficult to work with?
18:27:42 [racer-rob] i meant with aem, you knoe big filter on the end type of intake
18:27:44 [bkw] the hardest part schatten is making the molds
18:27:48 [Schatten]>[axcilla] racer-Rob <grins> I called him Bob a few times too.
18:27:50 [mingster] Utah: no, got too busy, and my guy promised me 30pcs by mid nov.
18:28:04 [Utah S2K] Cool........
18:28:17 [stbrnd] has anyone done a temp study on these new CAIs
18:28:26 [mingster] there are some very interesting stuff coming up for ID, and that's why i've been so busy
18:28:26 [S2kRob] You don't really compress air at speed enough to make a difference
18:28:34 [axcilla]>[Schatten] oops thanks ;p
18:28:34 [Utah S2K] I've had it up to 140 with no ill effects structurally on the CAI .
18:28:44 [bkw] other than that its pretty simple.. i learned by reading instructions on the internet then going to this shop who sells carbon fiber weave and epoxy
18:28:45 [racer-rob] its very simple air/fuel ratio, have you guys heard of that???
18:28:55 [What The] stbrnd: no test. but the tube is warm after 1 hr of hard driving
18:29:03 [Tanqueray] I thought positive pressure in the intake would make the sensors freak out, like on the superchargers.
18:29:03 [Tanqueray] I thought positive pressure in the intake would make the sensors freak out, like on the superchargers.
18:29:24 [racer-rob] too much air=bad, too much fuel=bad right mixture=good
18:29:34 [rstark] What ever happened to this extension: http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/10/HON...91062918_pv.jpg
18:29:41 [bkw] the intake was my first trial with something with bends and angles, i first carved a small box out of styrofoam for the piece that goes into the oem air intake horn thing
18:29:44 [Schatten] correct, but the ECU should adjust for that.
18:29:51 [Sev] It has to be more direct to be worthwile
18:29:56 [lane] The sensors only have trouble w/lots of pressure, CAI's can't create that type of pressure (asaik).
18:29:57 [What The] RR: i thought the ecu automatically adjusts the air/fuel ratio?
18:30:00 [bkw] then i made the bent pieces seperately
18:30:03 [S2kRob] Yeah, okay, but you can gain the same amount by having a properly tuned intkae manifold
18:30:05 lane exits from this room
18:30:08 lane enters this room
18:30:08 boiler enters this room
18:30:10 [stbrnd] No matter how much air you "ram" at the filter it is only going to take so much. Past the filter it is temp reduction only
18:30:11 [bkw] i fused all the pieces with carbon fiber
18:30:15 [bkw] its really ugly
18:30:22 [S2kRob] Test
18:30:26 [bkw] but im sure my next try will come out much cleaner
18:30:28 [Utah S2K] My sensors are running fine ...I plugged into the OBD-II with the ole laptop and even at speed sensors were normal.....
18:30:28 [racer-rob] not if the air box is being rammed with air all the time, oopss i mean part of the time unless you drive at 75 mph all the time
18:30:37 [Schatten] bkw - still interested in seeing pics. expensive?
18:30:47 [bkw] not really
18:30:47 [S2kRob] How is it working with carbon fiber?
18:30:53 StrangeDaze enters this room
18:30:56 [bkw] i got all the pieces for under $50
18:31:02 [Schatten] I keep it under 75 until I get out of my apartment complex. =)
18:31:06 [bkw] i'll take pics once i get a new digcam
18:31:07 [Utah S2K] Welcome Strange.....
18:31:19 [bkw] someone took pics of it at the fall colors meet.. im sure someone will post pics eventually
18:31:36 [What The] RR: i'm wondering just how much air the stock box really gets. That plastic piece in front of it looks like it restricts airflow
18:31:46 [StrangeDaze] hello
18:32:13 [stbrnd] enough to give you a 240 hp engine
18:32:14 [Utah S2K] ......subject is CAI's and intake mods......
18:32:19 [What The] If you look at it, there's only about 4 or 5 small "slits" to let air in after hitting the radiator fins
18:32:20 [bkw] inside the airbox there are channels the air has to flow thru, im sure its restrictive, and im positive its just so that it'll quiet the car down
18:32:24 [What The] hi Strange
18:32:28 [racer-rob] what the, i was looking at it today and i think it probablt does, and who know how much the ram air thing woks anyway, we just dont have the resources
18:32:56 [Sev] A ram air system for it to be effetive gas to have the following characteristics: 1: Be in a high pressure area, 2: be very direct 3: No or little bends, 4: Made of low heat transfer matreial: The AEM and Injen both fail these measures.
18:33:01 [What The] RR: i took that plastic piece off to allow more airflow into the stock box
18:33:04 [bkw] what the, have you cut out the side plastic thing on your bumper for more cold air?
18:33:13 [gpiazza] Any idea if these type of mods efftect the Honda warrantee?
18:33:19 [mingster] Sev: well said.
18:33:20 [Utah S2K] The channels act as a "water drop". If you look at the left side you'll notice a hole in the bottom of the box.
18:33:23 [Schatten] bkw - yeup! silencers. but the 'box' style intake, not exactly sure what the volume is trying to do besides quiet the intake down
18:33:23 [racer-rob] more hot air???? what the
18:33:27 [S2kRob] Sev, there stock airbox is way to big to pressurize at normal speeds.
18:33:30 [bkw] gpiazza depends what part of the warrantee your speak of
18:33:40 [mingster] if you got the AEM and sucked water into the engine, no warranty
18:33:45 [What The] bkw: yes. I cut the fake brake duct to allow more airflow into the filter
18:33:50 [stbrnd] why not get a dyno with and without with a big turbo fan blowing at the front of the car to simulate air movement.
18:33:53 [S2kRob] Heat transfer properties are not very important.
18:33:59 [bkw] the intake box has a built in resonator unlike other hondas where they hide the resonator inside the fender well
18:34:00 [What The] s2krob, can't read the yellow!
18:34:03 [racer-rob] unless you carried the stock box in your trunk ming
18:34:08 [Utah S2K] S2k Rob...lose the Yellow........
18:34:16 deeman enters this room
18:34:22 [bkw] thats why i think cai's gain more HP on other hondas than our s2000's
18:34:24 [mingster] yeah rob
18:34:31 [S2kRob] Air is moving way too fast in the intake to receive much if any heat from the tube
18:34:32 [Utah S2K] Welcome deeman.....
18:34:37 [S2kRob] How's that
18:34:47 [mingster] i thought we'd have a bigger crowd than this.
18:34:51 [Utah S2K] Better........
18:34:58 [What The] Sev: regarding the heat issue, the stock box tubing gets waaay hotter than the AEM tubing does
18:35:01 [S2kRob] Stock airbox is fundamentally flawed in WHERE it draws in it's air
18:35:04 [mingster] pink is your color utah, it suits you
18:35:06 [Schatten] bkw - could be, I also think its why sev was saying our intake - in stock form - is more of a CAI than most intakes from the factory.
18:35:12 [Utah S2K] 18-20 isn't bad....should pick up later.....
18:35:13 [deeman] Thanks, U2K
18:35:22 [bkw] schatten i agree with sev
18:35:29 [gpiazza] mingster, that was one of my concerns!
18:35:33 [S2kRob] The bends on the AEM are shallow enough so as not to cause restriction
18:35:37 [stbrnd] the tube can certainly heat air as it moves through it, its the way my furnace works
18:35:37 [racer-rob] i think the answer is in the heat resistant extension
18:35:41 [bkw] and for $200+ for a possible 5-10hp gain just isnt worth it for me..
18:35:48 [S2kRob] Remember bends themselves are not bad
18:36:03 [Utah S2K] Thanks....I use it only to piss off Shellie(it is her color don't you know). But according to board edicate....first come....first served .
18:36:03 [Utah S2K] Thanks....I use it only to piss off Shellie(it is her color don't you know). But according to board edicate....first come....first served .
18:36:07 [lane] Stock intake is a great compromise between best intake and safety, I think.
18:36:14 [S2kRob] stbrnd, you're intake is flowing air at probably 10 times the velocity your furnace does
18:36:21 [racer-rob] $200 for 5-10 hp, thats cheap, inly if i had the hard evidence
18:36:33 [Schatten] if it is 5-10 hp, it would be worth it, especially if you are only getting 200hp at the wheels, 5-10 in % wise would be a rather large margin for this car.
18:36:33 [S2kRob] The air is in the intake for maybe 0.5 seconds when you are at full throttle
18:36:44 [What The] Sev: from my own tests. after an hour of hard drving, if you put your hand on the stock box tubing, it is literally too hot to touch. with my aem same conditions, i can still touch the tubing and even hold it there
18:36:45 [Sev] Air does get heated as it passes through if the intake is hot
18:36:45 [bkw] i spent 400 for a 50hp increase on my old audi..
18:36:55 [stbrnd] only during constant movement
18:36:58 [bkw] but thats a totally different animal
18:37:02 [S2kRob] Not at full throttle
18:37:20 [S2kRob] I can't imagine it being more than 5 degrees at the MAX
18:37:25 [mingster] try touching the air filter with spoon/ID intake duct, it's actually COLD after a long drive.
18:37:28 [bkw] hey sev, what group were you in on saturday?
18:37:30 [racer-rob] well we all can spend $500 on a 50 shot, but how good is that for the car
18:37:31 [Schatten] you could always put caliper paint or something of the like on the tubing if you are that worried. ugly but works.
18:37:39 [rstark] anyone have info on this extension??? http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/10/HON...91062918_pv.jpg
18:37:55 [S2kRob] Figure out the air flow the engine requires at 9000rpm.
18:37:56 [racer-rob] what about the aem cai witht the jr filter on the end??? huh huh huhh
18:37:58 [Schatten] that's the '02 extension
18:38:04 [bkw] hey that looks like my piece that i made.. just looks much more oem
18:38:06 [S2kRob] Figure out the volume of the intake tract.
18:38:10 [S2kRob] Divide.
18:38:10 S2KTroup enters this room
18:38:15 [What The] Schatten: funny thing i thought about was that we are willing to pay $1000 for an exhaust that makes MAYBE 2-3 hp if even that, but we go quezzy over a $250 cai intake that makes at LEAST 4hp!
18:38:18 S2Kguy enters this room
18:38:21 [mingster] racer-rob: you have a good idea, i'll look into it!
18:38:26 [bkw] sev, agressive?
18:38:27 [stbrnd] is it possible to insulate the AEM tubing at all?
18:38:33 [bkw] header wrap
18:38:34 [S2kRob] That gives you the the flow rate through the intkae. I'm telling you it's VERY high.
18:38:35 [Utah S2K] All I know is with the Import unit on my car I have to wait freakin forever to get to three bars....colder air is definitely effecting the warm up time.....and the butt dyno don't lie!
18:38:39 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:38:39 [racer-rob] ok mingster send me the prototype
18:38:42 [bkw] but it'll look kinda dooky
18:38:48 [Schatten] header wrap? for insulation?
18:38:50 [Utah S2K] Welcome S2K Guy......
18:38:54 [S2Kguy] Hey fellas...
18:38:59 [Utah S2K] Howdy Marc!!
18:39:01 [stbrnd] What the, the exhaust sounds
in a tunnel though
18:39:01 [stbrnd] What the, the exhaust sounds in a tunnel though
18:39:11 [racer-rob] actually im trying to come up with my own invention
18:39:13 [Yellow S2000] Hi guys
18:39:18 [Schatten] WhatThe - comprende, yet a mustang or camaro - 200 bucks will get you an easy 35hp if not more =)
18:39:22 [What The] stbrnd: i agree, that's why i got one
18:39:24 [Sev] IMO, the intake of the s2000 is designed with much more in mind, it is designed to resonate properly and flow properly throughout the power band...
18:39:28 [Utah S2K] Just finished vacuuming all the leaves out of my intake from this weekend .
18:39:31 [S2Kguy] wazzup Utah
18:39:34 [axcilla] Hello Marc
18:39:38 [S2Kguy] hey What The
18:39:39 [mingster] you'll have to pay for it bro
18:39:49 [What The] yo Sk2guy!
18:39:50 [S2kRob] Intake resonation is only important after the throttle body, though
18:39:55 [bkw] was jerry your group leader?
18:40:01 [deeman] Wh8ich of the CAI's have provision to prevent H2O induction?
18:40:06 [S2Kguy] hey Ax
18:40:10 [racer-rob] shit, just cut a hole in your hood, theres no way the air will ever get heatyed up in time
18:40:11 lane exits from this room
18:40:12 lane exits from this room
18:40:12 [S2kRob] Intake resonation in the intake is just to quiet it down. Who cares about that?
18:40:15 lane enters this room
18:40:26 [racer-rob] deeman, aen doed
18:40:26 [Sev] This is not a Civic or prelude, and a CAI like AEM is not going to give the same results as those cars
18:40:37 [racer-rob] aem does
18:40:42 [What The] Deeman: the AEM has the best chance since you can add the bypass valve
18:40:43 [axcilla] racer-rob 0however very tacky - yes it probably would work
18:40:47 [S2kRob] But it HAS given results on the dyno.
18:40:52 [Yellow S2000] Hello David
18:40:53 [Utah S2K] deeman......I think as long as you leave the divider in the stock box your OK.
18:40:53 [Tanqueray] deeman: the Injen and AEM intakes are over a foot off the ground and protected by the undertray.
18:41:04 VTEXTC enters this room
18:41:04 [bkw] our car is really hard to draw power out of.. honda has already done that for us.. ok, besides forced induction
18:41:06 [Schatten] my roomie has a civic, but where is the intake placed on it? is it the same ? where you have air being sucked in the hood cracks?
18:41:11 [racer-rob] im all about the end result,lol
18:41:18 [VTEXTC] Evening folks
18:41:23 [S2KTroup] I have the Injen CAI if anyone wants my opinion
18:41:26 [S2Kguy] Forgive me, I'm coming to this late, did we decide which CAI to purchase Utah?
18:41:27 Sev exits from this room
18:41:27 Sev enters this room
18:41:30 [racer-rob] shoot
18:41:30 [S2kRob] t
18:41:35 [mingster] what we need is to have the CAI equipped cars on a track side by side.
18:41:37 [What The] the AEM makes a difference you CAN feel. it's not a questionable "is it just me" feeling. you can feel it
18:41:38 [axcilla] lo VTEXTC
18:41:38 [axcilla] lo VTEXTC
18:41:48 [Schatten] S2Kguy - no decisions really. just discussing. its all up to you and your pocketbook
18:41:52 [bkw] are you sure its just not the sound thats making you feel that way?
18:41:53 [S2Kguy] Mingster ROCKS!!!!!!!!
18:42:00 [Tanqueray] With the same driver in each car...
18:42:00 [VTEXTC] axcilla! Sorry I didnt call today...1-800# didnt work from where I was.
18:42:05 [S2Kguy] hey Schat, didn't see you...
18:42:06 [mingster] LOL, thank you
18:42:10 [deeman] Does the AEM come w/ bypass valve?
18:42:15 [Utah S2K] Still discussijng.....lots of folks have their opinions which is why we're all here......except 9K
18:42:21 [Schatten] howdee =)
18:42:23 [What The] bkw: i had that sound when i took the stock airbox top off, you can feel the car bog down
18:42:35 [What The] deeman: no it does not. you have to purchase it extra
18:42:38 [S2Kguy] Now Ming, where the hell is my oil for my JR?
18:42:43 [bkw] axcilla, hey were can i get some new nubs for my dead pedal? i had her detailed last week and they vacuumed up the nubs i was saving on the floor
18:42:50 [axcilla]>[VTEXTC] hmm direct dial 1-910-575-4085 or PM me your phone number and I can contact you.
18:42:52 [bkw] what the, i know what you mean
18:42:55 [S2Kguy] just kidding, it's no where near dirty yet
18:42:59 [What The] bkw: lol i have the same problem too
18:43:04 [mingster] s2kguy: You haven't gotten it yet? can you email or PM me your last name?
18:43:07 [Schatten] What The - THANK YOU! everyone says it is gaining, but its not, Rich even dynoed it. its just psychological, and it does bog down like a carborator is flooded =)
18:43:09 [racer-rob] there are so many variables, air temp ambiant temp, humidity, the list goes on and on
18:43:20 [axcilla] For need of any "nubs" please PM me with your address and they will besent promptly.
18:43:20 [VTEXTC] axcilla..sounds good...I will PM you later on
18:43:21 [What The] Dave, i need some extra rubber thingamajigs
18:43:28 [bkw]
18:43:31 [bkw] anks axicilla
18:43:37 [VTEXTC] axcilla...kewl..will pm you later on
18:43:37 [Sev] Some people used to take the covetr of the stock intake box off and think they have more power. Just because it is louder, doesn't mean it is faster
18:43:39 [stbrnd] I still want to see a TEMPERATURE test. Since this is a COLD air device, lets measure the temp
18:43:41 [What The] cool
18:43:47 [S2Kguy] Whoa dude, I haven't even ordered it...last I heard it wasn't available yet...is it now? Price?
18:44:17 [mingster] $11.99 plus shipping
18:44:19 [mingster]
18:44:24 [What The] Sev Schatten: that's what i mean, with the aem regardless of the sound it does make a noticable difference in power. there is more low end torque
18:44:27 [mingster] i thought you ordered it already.
18:44:27 [S2Kguy]
18:44:29 [bkw] mingster, for what?
18:44:30 benlavigne enters this room
18:44:37 [racer-rob] stbrnd, i thin cold air really means ram air, we just cant use that terms because of the domestics,
18:44:44 [mingster] JR Filter and cleaner kit
18:44:44 [benlavigne] sup all...
mingster] hey ben
18:44:52 [What The] Taking off the cover sounds cool, but it bogs the car down
18:44:54 [bkw] ahh
18:44:59 [S2kRob] Cold air and ram air are two different things
18:45:03 [lane] Is installation difficulty even a consideration on a CAI purchase, or just cost per HP gain?
18:45:11 [axcilla] hello ben
18:45:12 [mingster] s2krob: you are right
18:45:12 [racer-rob] thats how much the filter cost mingster??
18:45:19 [mingster] $55 + $5
18:45:23 [bkw] racer-rob, cleaner only
18:45:25 [S2kRob] Mingster, loved the videos
18:45:26 [benlavigne] HEY MINGSTER!
18:45:37 [mingster] thanks, i like them too!
18:45:40 [racer-rob] hey ming??? you need to set-up online ordering, i wouold have bought already
18:45:42 [S2Kguy] Hey Sev, I've been missing the boat on taking off the airbox cover, I never did it until the other day...now I'm addicted, I always take it off when I cruise. I can't tell the difference in power at all...less or more...probably less
18:45:45 [benlavigne] ya the videos rocked
18:45:46 [S2kRob] Recommend everyone here get the togue battle
18:45:54 [S2KTroup] As far as heat build up on the Injen intake I can say it negligable. I just got through a drive through the mountains last weekend and when I got home after 200+ miules I could grab my intake at the throttlebody by far the hotest end with no discomfort at all.
18:45:56 [What The] Sev: with the stock airbox off, even with the sound there. you can feel the loss of power
18:46:00 [Schatten] Richard's online ordering will be implimented soon.
18:46:04 [Utah S2K] Hey Marc.....join me in the other room for a minute to discuss Alpine Loop.
18:46:07 [Schatten] Same with Bulletproof's.
18:46:12 [Utah S2K] You game?
18:46:18 [What The] S2Ktroup, i have the same story with the AEM
18:46:18 [stbrnd] has anybody figured out the HP/ degrees F yet I have seen 5F=1 HP
18:46:21 [mingster] i'm running the online ordering beta thing.
18:46:26 [bkw] alpine loop for cva?
18:46:28 [S2kRob] BTW the service was excellent.
18:46:41 [racer-rob] what is beta??? mac stuff???
18:46:41 [S2kRob] Stupid customs broker ripped me off, but what can you do.
18:46:46 [mingster] http://www.importdevelopment.net/paypal_s2...s2000engine.htm
18:46:49 [mingster] check it out.
18:46:50 [S2Kguy] I never felt it lose power WT, but I don't doubt you at all
18:46:55 [Utah S2K] cva?
18:47:01 [racer-rob] ughhh paypal
18:47:02 [Schatten] beta is like... the competitor for vhs =)
18:47:11 [mingster] Customs Broker ALWAYS rip you off, why do you think stuff from Japan's so expensive!
18:47:13 [bkw] car stereo stuff.. i guess i was wrong
18:47:18 [benlavigne] who runs ES Motorsports? some guy named ming...that isn't you is it richard?
18:47:23 [Sev] /TO Schatten some people used to argue otherwise in the old days My point is you will NOT FEEL any difference from a 3-4 HP intake
18:47:25 [What The] s2kguy: the car feels bogged down and is less responsive with the stock airbox top off
18:47:27 [Yellow S2000] Utah.. Sure
18:47:29 [Schatten] racer-rob - you can call Rich with credit card info.
18:47:31 [bkw] woo nice site mingster
18:47:33 [mingster] you can send the order and call up with your CC so i can process it.
18:47:41 Utah S2K exits from this room
18:47:42 [Schatten] /To Sev =D
18:47:43 [S2kRob] Yeah, but they charged $10 for a $20 package - never had that happen before
18:47:47 [mingster] i'm still working on it.
18:47:50 [S2Kguy] Really? I didn't notice, and I was looking for it with all the threads on the subject
18:47:54 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:03 [bkw] anyone wanna buy a carbotech $50 gift certificate?
18:48:04 [S2kRob] Mingster, what are you working on for ID?
18:48:16 [racer-rob] sweet mingster, is that a new feature??
18:48:28 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:28 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:32 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:48:39 [bkw] sema.. i'll be there
18:48:40 [Schatten] anyone going to SEMA?
18:48:41 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:43 [S2Kguy] Tell you the truth, a couple HP either way won't kill me, I just love the sound
18:48:51 [mingster] i'm working on some new stuff. you'll note we're Advan/Work/C-West/Top Fuel/Top Secret vendor now
18:48:58 [Schatten] mini - S2k meet at SEMA for those who do and do not have theirs there?
18:48:59 [What The] S2Kguy: i used to take it off every once in a whiles just for the sound, but the performance loss (lack of throttle) made me put the top back on
18:49:01 [mingster] and also J's racing
18:49:07 [bkw] schatten are you going?
18:49:15 [Schatten] bkw - yeup!
18:49:18 [mingster] who's going to SEMA?
18:49:20 [S2kRob] Mingster, can you get the Advan TCII's
18:49:22 [bkw] cool
18:49:24 [mingster] yeah, Top Fuel
18:49:24 [bkw] me too
18:49:29 [S2kRob] They're the ones with the hollow spokes
18:49:32 [mingster] But all this is AFTER SEMA
18:49:33 [benlavigne] I hope I will be
18:49:38 [S2Kguy] I always put it back on at the end of the night WT, dunno why, but I do
18:49:38 [What The] How about that turbo kit they have!!?
18:49:53 [bkw] when are you guys going to be there?
18:50:12 [mingster] that turbo kit doesn't work with LHD cars
18:50:21 [Schatten] afternoon of the 31st through sat around noon. do you have a car? maybe you can take me to the airport on sat. =)
18:50:22 [What The] doh! dammit
18:50:34 [Sev] Everyone has their opinion, lets remember though that we are talking differences that are NOT noticable, it doesn't really matter which intake you buy, the AEM, the Injen, the Mingster etension or my extension... It is whichever makes you happy
18:50:37 [bkw] im flying in on the 29th
18:50:54 [mingster] sorry guys, back to CAI. and Sev is right on, whatever you like you should get.
18:50:55 [bkw] hey sev, how much are you going to charge for your duct?
18:51:02 [Sev] If you like load intake sounds, then I would surely buy the AEM or Injen
18:51:13 [Sev] Probably around $89 shipped
18:51:20 [bkw] wow
18:51:24 [bkw] cost effective
18:51:30 [What The] Sev: another advantage if you use the aem/injen. you WILL have extra luggage space in the engine. and it makes changing the oil a whole hell of a lot easier!
18:51:38 [What The] ;p
18:51:40 [Sev] If you want an extension that looks good and is good, go for the mingster
18:51:42 [S2Kguy] All I need is a Turbocharger/Intercooler kit with a ceramic impellar and 8PSI, well...maybe a compressor bypass valve kit...lol
18:51:50 [S2Kguy] maybe a new diff...lol
18:51:53 [Sev] f you want something cheaper that still works, go for mine
18:51:53 VTEXTC exits from this room
18:52:08 [Schatten] what the - agreed, especially if you have an Xbrace
18:52:09 [Sev] f you want something very cheap, buy a $5 mat and slap it on yourself
18:52:15 [racer-rob] just had a few great thoughts, anyone care to hear them mingster???
18:52:53 [What The] it's amazing how much space the stock box takes up..my engine bay is empty now!
18:52:53 gregstevens enters this room
18:52:59 [What The] yo Greg!
18:53:01 [Schatten] howdee greg
18:53:02 [racer-rob] anyone ever dynoed with the heat or ac on?
18:53:07 [gregstevens] hallo!
18:53:07 [rstark] hey g
18:53:10 [Sev] Hi Gregggggggggg
18:53:25 [mingster] sure
18:53:25 [axcilla] lo greg
18:53:25 [Sev] Why didn't you come to fall colours?
18:53:28 [gregstevens] yo sev...how's it going?
18:53:36 [Sev] GOOOOOOOOOOd
18:53:36 [S2Kguy] there was a fella at S2Kdays that had the HKS exhaust and no airbox cover...OMG...I almost lost it when he came by. I've got to have that sound!
18:53:38 mingster exits from this room
18:53:39 mingster enters this room
18:53:42 [S2Kguy] hey GS
18:53:42 [stbrnd] what would be the best way to find out which has the best HP gain
18:53:46 [gregstevens] i could get away... looks like you guys had a blast tho!
18:53:50 [racer-rob] since we are talking about cold air, what would be the pros and cons on having the ac directed into the airbox
18:54:01 [gregstevens] hey A
18:54:23 [Sev] The AC would take more power then it would give, at high speeds, it would be a restriction
18:54:24 [mingster] you lose more HP than you gain with the AC pointed and on.
18:54:35 [gregstevens] that wouldn't be a bad thing, except for the parasitic drag that the compressor puts on the motor
18:54:39 [S2Kguy] while your at it RACER-BOB, maybe you could design a tray to fit over the airbox so we could fill it with ice at every station...no joke
18:54:48 [racer-rob] or even the tube , right into the tube, behind the filter, you sure mingster?
18:54:52 [stbrnd] the AC pulls power away from the flywell to drive the compressor
18:55:09 [racer-rob] well dry ice does sit nicely in the airbox
18:55:15 [mingster] how about pure oxygen bottle? better than NOS?
18:55:19 [S2Kguy]
18:55:25 [racer-rob] different pullies for the ac???
18:55:28 [gregstevens] but a little explosive!
18:55:32 [S2Kguy] oxygen is impossible, too unstable
18:55:39 [mingster] how fast do the dry ice "melt"?
18:55:48 [S2Kguy] that's the reason for Nitros, it's a stable carrier
18:55:54 mingster exits from this room
18:55:58 mingster enters this room
18:55:59 [What The] how about spraying NOS on the inake tubing to cool the piping down
18:56:00 [racer-rob] depends on how long you leave it in there
18:56:01 [axcilla] oxygen -= fire
18:56:01 [S2Kguy] takes a while I think Mingster
18:56:06 [Schatten] dry ice is what my old roomie used to use at the drag strip to cool the intercooler and turbo on the typhoon.
18:56:06 [stbrnd] still will pull on the engine decreasing power.
18:56:30 [racer-rob] im trying to be productive here sev, help me out
18:56:33 S2KTroup exits from this room
18:56:47 [gregstevens] how was the discussion tonight? i was busy
18:56:47 [stbrnd] I have seen the dry ice and also liquid nitrogen used.
18:56:52 [racer-rob] what abvout a little fan in the stock airbox?
18:56:56 [axcilla] liquid nitrogen and propane
18:56:58 [gregstevens] has anyone been here the whole time?
18:57:12 [racer-rob] me, been here too long
18:57:24 [S2Kguy] what you have to remember here Racer-Rob is that everything has been tried, these things will work, but the question is the consequences and cost
18:57:27 [Sev] BACK TO THE TOPIC THEN
18:57:28 [axcilla] I'm recording the session greg
18:57:33 [Schatten] I'd actually like to see about the plenum spacer that UL was working on some time ago. that will be a rather inexpensive addition to the intake improvements.
18:57:33 [Schatten] I'd actually like to see about the plenum spacer that UL was working on some time ago. that will be a rather inexpensive addition to the intake improvements.
18:57:35 [gregstevens] copy and paste the conversation in an email, ok? send it to greg@s2kca.com
18:57:40 [S2Kguy] lol @ Ax
18:57:49 [gregstevens] ok, david, nevermind, racer-bob!
18:57:51 Utah S2K enters this room
18:57:57 [Schatten] done greg
18:57:57 JBoggs enters this room
18:57:59 [gregstevens] ute!
18:58:03 [S2Kguy] hey again Utah
18:58:06 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:58:15 [What The] yo Utah, Jboggs!
18:58:18 [racer-rob] s2kguy, just because someone tried it doesnt mean they put 110 per cent into it
18:58:22 [S2Kguy] why was everyone calling you...uh...nevermind
18:58:23 [What The] hey Yellow
18:58:27 [JBoggs] hey
18:58:27 [mingster] there's something akin to a venturi plate deal we're looking at, but don't know if it'll help.
18:58:34 [S2Kguy] I didnt' mean on this car Rob
18:58:47 [Utah S2K] Howdy Greg....Marc and I were just reviewing this weekends run in Timpanogos State Park here in Utah .
18:58:47 [Sev] IMO, I wouldn't change my stock airbox unless I was to buy the mugen, All I would do is add an extension otherwise
18:59:00 [axcilla]>[gregstevens] I get it to you, I'm going to post it though (I'll take out any questionable material against honda
18:59:11 [racer-rob] this car is unique, its not your run of the mill civic or integra
18:59:17 [S2Kguy] when can we go off topic?
18:59:33 [Sev] NEVER
18:59:36 [Sev]
18:59:37 [racer-rob] why mugen sev?
18:59:38 [What The] lol
18:59:42 [S2Kguy] *tear
18:59:43 [gregstevens]>[axcilla] cool, you don't need to send it to me...just post it...i was going to just send it to the admins
18:59:45 [Utah S2K] ROFLMAO.....
18:59:58 [Sev] maybe we should create an Off topic in the chat
18:59:59 [mingster] because mugen is the best?
19:00:04 [S2Kguy] but i have an interesting question, one no one has asked...
19:00:04 [Utah S2K] You can always create a room to the right.
19:00:16 [Sev] If you are willing to pay the money, MUGEN is the best
19:00:22 [S2Kguy] suk, thanks for your support Utah
19:00:29 [S2Kguy] lol
19:00:35 [racer-rob] lol mugen is the best, what parts do the cart teams use on their hondas
19:00:37 [Utah S2K] A feature of the chat room is to create your own room for your own topic.
19:00:41 [Sev] There is a reason those parts are expensive, they test much more then a dyno with the bumper off...
19:00:42 [axcilla] Just who is this MUGEN guy
19:00:59 [S2Kguy] yeah, and stay there by myself the rest of the night...no thanks
19:00:59 [Utah S2K] Anyone can do this not just "officials".
19:01:08 [gregstevens] yea, what sev is saying!
19:01:13 [S2Kguy] lol
19:01:14 What The exits from this room
19:01:14 What The enters this room
19:01:24 [Utah S2K] Type a subject in the Create/Join box and hit enter......
19:01:34 [What The] too broke to get Mugen lol
19:01:37 [racer-rob] will the jr filter fit on the aem???
19:01:41 [Utah S2K] A new room will be formed and folks can join you.....
19:01:46 [What The] too broke to get Mugen
19:01:46 What The exits from this room
19:01:49 [What The] RR. i don't think so
19:01:55 [mingster] JR offers a universal filter, i'm sure something will fit on it.
19:01:56 [S2Kguy] thanks anyway utah, I'll run it by everyone when they get bored
19:02:05 [Schatten] the AEM/Injen utilize what kind of filter?
19:02:11 charlie enters this room
19:02:16 [What The] Schatten: K&N
19:02:18 [mingster] i think they have their own filters
19:02:19 Utah S2K exits from this room
19:02:28 [charlie]
19:02:30 Utah S2K enters this room
19:02:30 [Sev] Wuzzzzzzzzap charlie?????????
19:02:30 [What The] Sev: i got the aem
19:02:31 [axcilla] lo charlie
19:02:42 [JBoggs] aem makes their own filters now
19:02:50 [Utah S2K] Welcome Charlie....
19:03:01 [What The] bkw: free!
19:03:03 [S2Kguy] hey Charlie...
19:03:04 [bkw] bastid
19:03:06 [What The]
19:03:09 [racer-rob] how do you feel about cleaning your filters, i heard that once you clean it , it loosens up the dirt and it can be sucked into your engine
19:03:10 [charlie] hey Sev was nice meeting you this weekend hope the ride home was uneventful
19:03:12 [mingster] i wonder if we'll break the 21 people mark...
19:03:20 [charlie] hi gang
19:03:29 [axcilla] The Max was 28 last week
19:03:31 [bkw] charile, you were at the event as well?
19:03:31 [What The] bkw: i think retail is 320. there was a g/b for 250 or something like that
19:03:43 [What The] Sev: lol
19:03:44 [Utah S2K] Been hovering there for awhile.....
19:03:53 [Schatten] fyi - I'll be taking orders this week on a special for the AEM's and Injen's. They will not be shipped this week, but next week - just PM me for pricing.
19:03:55 [racer-rob] $320 fror what?
19:03:55 [racer-rob] $320 fror what?
19:04:01 [What The] btw: does anyone here have the Zeal B6's?
19:04:17 [What The] RR: retail for the aem cai
19:04:18 [mingster] Silversurfer has the B6, along with Socal28
Happy Holidays All, Wait - Wrong Chat Room
Welcome Back Utah -Due to your previous engagements
17:50:58 [jschmidt] In the end, I'm guessing the best solution would be a NACA duct in the hood.
17:51:20 [jschmidt] Yea, I meant the behind-the-radiator solutions
17:51:48 [Sev] NACA duct?
17:51:54 gpiazza enters this room
17:52:06 [funsdead] im back
17:52:07 [racer-rob] where can i find install directions for the aem?
17:52:12 [funsdead] what cai's do u guys have?
17:52:23 [racer-rob] <<--has none
18:10:08 [racer-rob] you know the thing you put in your window to reflect the sun??
18:10:15 [Sev] which is how many pounds? 7-8?
18:10:16 silverbullet enters this room
18:10:34 [Sev] That works great
18:10:43 [What The] that thing is huge! Once you take that box out, you can literally fit a briefcase in there
18:10:43 [Sev] Doesn't loook too good though
18:10:45 [racer-rob] are you serious sev???
18:10:54 [Schatten] rstark - did you leave the car on for a while, and then sit at a light for a while to show them? well that would be just for heat but still.
18:10:55 [Sev] Yes
18:11:01 [What The] Sev: every little bit counts
18:11:01 [axcilla] From all I have read, the CAI only works well in VTEC ?
18:11:05 [rstark] What about Iceman intakes? Aren't they made of a different material?
18:11:12 [racer-rob] i agree sev, looks bad, havent tried the performance of it though
18:11:16 [Sev] It is cheap too cdelena and a few others have it
18:11:17 Utah S2K enters this room
18:11:39 [rstark] Schatten, yes, couldn't reproduce the problem, it hasn't acted up in the last week or two
18:11:40 [What The] Dave: I can feel more torque around 3-6k range
18:11:42 [racer-rob] do you have that done sev?
18:11:44 [Utah S2K] Sorry I'm late.........
18:11:47 [axcilla] Welcome Back Utah -Due to your previous engagements
18:11:49 [What The] yo Utah!
18:11:49 [Tanqueray] axcilla, I thought there was a nice bump at 4k.
18:11:55 [Sev] I have always wanted to say the following:
18:12:20 [Schatten] racer-bob - I have it on my car, most of the guys in Houston and Dallas have them on there as well. it helps, at least for me, and if you do it right and fold it back, (I'll take pictures) and pin it down, it prevents heat from going towards the nose of the car from the engine bay at stops
18:12:26 [axcilla] 4k - not bad 0whuch CAI tanq?
18:12:51 [racer-rob] why do people call me racer-BOB???
18:12:57 [Utah S2K] Thanks Ax man.....good to back home!
18:13:01 [What The] lol!
18:13:08 [Schatten] racer-bob - get the large heat shield. I was worried about melting and/or just heat issues with it, but no issues at all, esp the guys in Houston with 104 degrees of heat in standstill traffic.
18:13:08 [rstark] Schatten, maybe I did the heat shield wrong, I'll look forward to your pictures
18:13:11 [axcilla]>[Utah S2K] I'm copying all of this chat -to post for those who wanted to read it (posts read) - unless otherwise??
18:13:25 [racer-rob] are you in houston schatten
18:13:25 [Schatten] sorry racer-Rob - mistake.
18:13:32 [Sev] ***** IMO, the stock s2000 intake system is VERY well designed and the engineers have spent a lot of time perfecting it and it works VERY well at high speeds, Proof of this is that the s2000, even with a Cd of 0.38 can run with cars that it shouldn't be able to at high speeds*****
18:13:32 [Sev] ***** IMO, the stock s2000 intake system is VERY well designed and the engineers have spent a lot of time perfecting it and it works VERY well at high speeds, Proof of this is that the s2000, even with a Cd of 0.38 can run with cars that it shouldn't be able to at high speeds*****
18:13:48 [Tanqueray] axcilla, both. Check the dynos in the Car Talk thread.
18:14:09 [What The] Sev: forgive my ignorance what's CD?
18:14:17 [Sev] *****The only problem it has is the heat that comes up from the radiator at low speeds, once the car gets moving at about 50-60mph, this is no longer a huge problem**** Sev out
18:14:24 [Spoiled] isnt that coefficient of drag
18:14:25 [Spoiled] ?
18:14:27 [Sev] Coefficient of drag
18:14:29 [Utah S2K] I have one of Mingsters prototypes and it seems to add a bit, especially above 30 MPH....
18:14:33 [Spoiled] or something?
18:15:02 [Schatten] Sev, it might be more like, under 30mph. different correlation, but the fans are only good for speeds under 30mph, over 30mph, air cools engine bay quite sufficiently.
18:15:06 [Spoiled] okay.. haha maybe not
18:15:21 axcilla exits from this room
18:15:24 axcilla enters this room
18:15:39 [Sev] I have been doing a lot of testing with a temperature probe, the magic number seems to be around 50-60 mph...
18:15:43 j76ms enters this room
18:15:46 [What The] Sev: I agree, but i really feel the AEM.injen designs are excellent. The tube does not get hot!
18:15:49 9k to heaven enters this room
18:15:58 bkw enters this room
18:16:00 [racer-rob] what about an extension that is heat proof?????
18:16:03 [9k to heaven] that's it!!!!!!!!
18:16:07 [Utah S2K] Welcome j76 and 9K......and bkw....
18:16:13 [9k to heaven] thanks
18:16:18 [bkw] hey utah
18:16:27 [Schatten] you could wrap it, coat it or make it in a cheap CF that would be somewhat flexible.
18:16:30 [What The] hi 9k, bkw, j76
18:16:30 [Utah S2K] What up bk?
18:16:34 [bkw] nada
18:16:35 [9k to heaven] I got arrested for " reckless driving " doing 75mph on the highway sunday
18:16:38 What The enters this room
18:16:38 What The exits from this room
18:16:39 [Schatten] or have some give in it, not necessarily flexible.
18:18:41 [Spoiled] you should get a lawyer
18:18:45 [9k to heaven] i already did
18:18:46 [axcilla] Now that is true Highway Robbery
18:18:51 [Schatten] was the car towed properly? or damage?
18:18:54 [Schatten] that is what I worry about.
18:18:59 [Spoiled] what was his reasons for your reckless behavior?
18:19:01 [9k to heaven] no damage as far as i can tell
18:19:01 [Utah S2K] What was the limit? 55?
18:19:05 [bkw] anyone here go to the fall colors meet?
18:19:06 [What The] You have to drive through and keep your filter underwater for it to suck 3in diameter of water through the piping and into the engine
18:19:07 [9k to heaven] speed limit was 60
18:19:16 [Spoiled] oh my god....where do you live man?
18:19:19 [9k to heaven] and he was coming from oncoming direction at that
:19:24 [Sev] It was a lot of fun, thank you Rick
18:19:27 [What The] that sucks 9K!
18:19:28 [bkw] we were flying thru the course at triple the speed limit at points
18:19:31 [Schatten] 15 mph over? hmmm.
18:19:37 [bkw] sev, what group were you in?
18:19:39 [Tanqueray] The Injen and AEM intakes are at least a foot off the ground, and protected by the undertray.
18:19:39 [9k to heaven] it took him less then one highway exit( about 1/2mile) to exit and turn around and catch up to me
18:19:45 [racer-rob] all in all i think the stock airbox is going to be hard to beat, i just need to fabricat4e an extension that will allow cooler air in
18:19:52 XIB18c1 enters this room
18:19:55 [9k to heaven] what kind of bs is that
18:20:00 [bkw] oh sev.. i remember you..
18:20:04 [Spoiled] sometimes I feel that cops are so naive
18:20:08 [Sev] Moderate, Laguna seca, we still went 80-90 mph in 30 mph zones...
18:20:08 [XIB18c1] hello all
18:20:10 [What The] Tanq: exactly
18:20:10 [9k to heaven] he didn't even read me my rights, didn't tell me what I was getting arrested ofr
18:20:11 [9k to heaven] for*
18:20:14 stbrnd enters this room
18:20:16 [Spoiled] and undeducated
18:20:17 [Utah S2K] Welcome XIB.....subject is CAI's
18:20:20 [Spoiled] haha
18:20:21 [bkw] your hat and your rollbar plexiglass wind buffering thingamajig
18:20:22 [Spoiled] look at me
18:20:25 [Spoiled] Uneducated
18:20:28 [Schatten] did you post bail?
18:20:29 StormBringer enters this room
18:20:31 [9k to heaven] as soon as i stopped he said, "it's not as fast as you think"
18:20:40 [bkw] i was the one who blew 5 tires
18:20:41 S2kRob enters this room
18:20:42 [bkw]
18:20:42 [9k to heaven] then he threw me in the back of the car and that was it
18:20:52 [rstark] can we get back on topic????
18:20:56 [9k to heaven] and i said am i getting arrested? he didn't reply
18:20:58 [What The] RR: the stock box is very very good, but the aem/injen is indeed better
18:21:00 [Sev] Ohhhhhhhh
18:21:01 [Utah S2K] 9K you should move to a chat room to the right....I'll help
18:21:02 [racer-rob] ye srstark
18:21:07 [Sev] You are the guy
18:21:09 [Schatten] hmmm, well did you notice if he had a camera on in his car? thing slike that?
18:21:11 [axcilla] 9k to heaven - The Trip TO Hell
18:21:16 [9k to heaven] no he didn't
18:21:20 [9k to heaven] no bail either
18:21:24 Utah S2K exits from this room
18:21:25 [9k to heaven] took them 4 hours to book me
18:21:37 [Schatten] well, the four hours you can't complain about.
18:21:39 [9k to heaven] my god i'm pissed
18:21:40 lane enters this room
18:21:41 [axcilla] And now back to the CAI discussion
18:21:50 [9k to heaven] brb
18:21:52 [racer-rob] what the, i doubt the guys at aem are better than the guys at honda, but i could be wrong, maybe honda had a cost issue with the intake
18:21:53 [Schatten] speedy as it isn't, its not that long. but the rights, that's what you can get off on
18:21:56 [bkw] anyone see the injen or aem units personally?
18:22:06 [Schatten] and lack of telling you why you were taken in custody.
18:22:11 [What The] bkw: i have one
18:22:21 [Schatten] nope I haven't seen them personally, but I sell them both. =)
18:22:23 Utah S2K enters this room
18:22:34 [What The] RR: Honda has never done a "tube" style intake
18:22:42 [Tanqueray] Schatten, are you guys shipping yet?
18:22:43 [Sev] I am not going to dispute either way, but IMO the stock box is very well designed, better then 99.9% of cars out there, AEM and Injen will not do to this car what it would do to a civic or a prelude...
18:22:44 [racer-rob] schatten, you sell them???
18:22:49 [bkw] can you tell me about the pipe that bends right before the radiator? does it keep its circumference all the way down the bend or does it flatten out a little?
18:22:58 [Schatten] next Monday we'll have them.
18:23:03 [racer-rob] what do you call the stock intake what the??
18:23:05 [stbrnd] i have seen diff. threads saying the intake takes 15min to 3 hrs to install (AEM) which is true
18:23:19 [axcilla] I saw the Injen Intake at NOPI - it was O.k. but not worth the cost - my opinion
18:23:21 S2k Dude enters this room
18:23:26 [bkw] stbrnd, i think it depends if youre familiar with the removal of the bumper
18:23:31 [racer-rob] how good are you with your hands stbrnd??
18:23:33 [Schatten] I would say, looking at the installs, it would take several hours for either one.
18:23:35 [Utah S2K] Welcome dude.......
18:23:40 [What The] bkw: it keeps the same circumference all the way down
18:23:46 [Tanqueray] D*mn. I thought Ben said that they were already in stock. I have been waiting for it to show up already.
18:23:58 [Schatten] well, new orders - next week
18:23:58 [bkw] hmm.. i wonder if i can make one myself then..
18:24:05 [Schatten] apparently he got ahold of three of them.
18:24:09 [axcilla]>[S2k Dude] SOrry, but one of your s2000 atlanta guys grills is being shipped to your house. His name will be in the package
18:24:09 [Utah S2K] How hard is the bumper removal?
18:24:11 [stbrnd] good with hands, never took the bumper off before
18:24:16 [Schatten] I'm just holding off expectations for new orders till next week.
18:24:16 [bkw] utah, simple
18:24:23 [What The] Schatten: it took me about 3 hours to do
18:24:26 [bkw] i can take off the bumper in about 5-7 minutes
18:24:28 [Tanqueray]
18:24:28 [9k to heaven] back
18:24:29 MyBad enters this room
18:24:36 [What The] 15 mins to take the bumper off
18:24:37 [9k to heaven] so CAI is the topic eh
18:24:37 [honda_s2k] Damn! This place is chaos! Later!
18:24:38 [Schatten] bumper removal isn't that hard, but better if you have two people to jar the corners in and out.
18:24:40 honda_s2k exits from this room
18:24:51 [Sev] Here are the problems with those pieces, 1: Made of metal, 2: Too long 3: Too many bends, 4:Posibilty of water...
18:24:54 [9k to heaven] i'm gonna go post my exhaust for sale
18:24:55 [9k to heaven] ;l
18:24:57 [stbrnd] I think one thread suggested that the bumper wouldnt have to come off??
18:24:57 mingster enters this room
18:25:00 [bkw] the corners are the hardest part.. but once you do it once, you'll figure out how to wedge it out
18:25:00 [Tanqueray] bkw: do you have pictures?
18:25:03 [S2k Dude]>[axcilla] No problem, I'll run it over to his house when it gets here.
18:25:05 [Utah S2K] Welcome My bad......
18:25:08 [What The] yo Mingster!
18:25:12 [Schatten] racer-Rob =) yeup, sell em via bulletproofautomotive.com
18:25:13 [bkw] of bumper removal?
18:25:21 [mingster]
18:25:21 [Schatten] hi rich
18:25:24 [Utah S2K] Mingster........enters....all bow down (LOL)
18:25:26 [Sev] Hi Mingster
18:25:31 [bkw] no, but follow the horn faq.. its real descriptive
18:25:32 [9k to heaven] man
18:25:38 [mingster] hi guys!
18:25:40 [9k to heaven] i got the stillen / mingster cai setup
18:25:41 [Tanqueray] Yep
18:25:43 [9k to heaven] it works wonder
18:26:01 [Sev]
18:26:05 [Tanqueray] Cool, thanks!
18:26:06 [axcilla] lo mingster
18:26:07 [racer-rob] air flow???? if you start your car isnt the air in the intake already??? ram air?? c;mon, i think our cars only can suck up so much air
18:26:08 [bkw] mingster, did you make the cai duct or did you have someone make it for you?
18:26:29 gpiazza enters this room
18:26:34 [mingster] someone is making it for me, i'm not that talented
18:26:41 [bkw] i made a cf duct but i kinda messed up
18:26:44 [Utah S2K] Welcome gpiazza
18:26:45 [bkw] it rubs the hood
18:26:47 [bkw]
18:26:51 [9k to heaven] mine does too but not that bad
18:26:52 [Schatten] you aren't redlining your car or leaning it out at idle either with lots of air. the ecu will adjust to that.
18:27:00 [axcilla] racer-bob you bring up a good point, you can only allow as much air into the engine as the exhaust will let out
18:27:05 [gpiazza] Thanks
18:27:06 [lane] air ram effect is at speed, it compresses the air, getting more oxegen into the same amount of space.
18:27:19 [9k to heaven] brb
17:52:33 [racer-rob] what do you have funs?
17:52:37 [Tanqueray] No, the AEM and Injen CAIs don't need any cutting.
17:52:39 [funsdead] nada
17:52:46 [jschmidt] Couldn't even explain a NACA duct. It's the funny shaped duct seen on lots of race cars and jets.
17:52:52 [Tanqueray] AEM is on the way.
17:52:53 [funsdead] u have to cut the plastic in the fenderwell
17:52:58 [racer-rob] im seriously thinking about the aem, though
17:53:06 [funsdead] for aem and injen
17:53:57 [Tanqueray] Sorry, no metal cutting.
17:54:36 [racer-rob] i have to wait a couple of weeks before i can buy it though, that sucks
17:55:10 [racer-rob] does the aem come with the by-pass valve? just curious
17:55:22 [jschmidt] Gotta go. See you all
17:55:24 [Tanqueray] Sev, you don't think the dynos are valid?
17:55:27 [racer-rob] bye j
17:55:45 rstark enters this room
17:56:01 [rstark] hi all
17:56:14 [racer-rob] hello rstark
17:56:31 [racer-rob] does anyone here have the aem installed and dynoed?
17:56:46 honda_s2k enters this room
17:56:58 What The enters this room
17:57:03 axcilla enters this room
17:57:07 [What The] Yo!
17:57:12 [What The] RR i have the AEM
17:57:14 [Tanqueray] Another guy in Phoenix got his today and says he will get it dynoed.
17:57:21 [racer-rob] does anyone have the aem installed and dynoed??
17:57:29 [racer-rob] hello all
17:57:33 [Sev] I didn't say they are not valid, the question is, why dyno with the bumper off????? The only thing it does is make the difference between stock and CAIs make better... Not accurate for sure
17:57:37 [axcilla] Happy Holidays All, Wait - Wrong Chat Room
17:57:45 [What The] rr, i have the AEM, but i have yet to dyno it
17:57:45 [Tanqueray] What The: did you notice a difference?
17:57:45 [Tanqueray] What The: did you notice a difference?
17:57:59 [racer-rob] lol@axcilla
17:58:05 [What The] Tan: yes i felt a noticeable difference in low end torque
17:58:06 [rstark] rr there was a thread on the injen and aem with dyno charts
17:58:40 [What The] It's not a questionable "is it just me" feeling. You CAN feel a difference
17:58:43 [racer-rob] yeah, we are just trying to find an actual member who can back the dynos up
17:59:00 [rstark] oh
17:59:06 [Tanqueray] Cool! What kind of weather was it?
17:59:13 [What The] I will have dynos next week. my suspension is messed up right now
17:59:18 [racer-rob] well not a memeber, but rather an owner, not a business
17:59:42 [racer-rob] how does is sound at idle what the
17:59:44 Schatten enters this room
17:59:44 StormBringer enters this room
17:59:47 [What The] yo Axcilla!
17:59:52 [Schatten] howdee
17:59:56 [What The] RR, it's a nice hum at idle
17:59:57 [Tanqueray] Hey, Randy
18:00:05 [What The] screams at Vtec
18:00:06 [Schatten] hmmmm smallville, or... s2ki chat *ponders*
18:00:07 [funsdead] hideeeeeeeeeeeee HO everyone
18:00:08 [axcilla]>[What The] How are you Kelvin
18:00:12 [racer-rob] btw i installed polk speakers today,lol
18:00:13 [rstark] hey schatten
18:00:21 [axcilla] lo guys
18:00:28 [What The] nice growl at 3-6
18:00:38 [StormBringer] to get the polks in did you have to cut out the speaker shelf
18:00:40 [What The] same old shit, different day, Dave
18:00:53 [racer-rob] what the , is it a better hum than the hum we get with the airbox cover off?
18:00:54 [funsdead] hey axcilla
18:01:10 [racer-rob] storm, i cut the basket a little
18:01:14 [What The] RR: along the same lines, but a little bit louder
18:01:18 [funsdead] did u guys get the 02's in down there yet?
18:01:23 [Schatten] oddly enough to comment on the dyno #'s - I would say that the CAI differences would only make differences on the drag strip rather than the dyno-measures due to the forced cold air at higher speeds.
18:01:23 [axcilla]>[funsdead] how are you daniel
18:01:25 [What The] it's a very nice sound
18:01:30 [funsdead] can't find one in raleigh yet
18:01:36 [StormBringer] Any trouble with the glass, also how think is the stock speaker cabling
18:01:42 [axcilla] I haven't seen a MY02 Yet
18:01:54 [racer-rob] what if you have a head wind schatten,lol
:02:42 [Schatten] well, it would be consistent.
18:02:43 [racer-rob] no troubles storm, at first i thought it wasnt that big of a difference, but after driving around its a lot more crisp
18:02:43 [StormBringer] thick not think sorry
18:02:53 [Tanqueray] Do we need to put insulation on the CAI tubes?
18:02:55 [Schatten] thing would be to look at is the speed, not the ET.
18:03:04 [honda_s2k] How do you dyno a CAI anyways? Air Tunnel?
18:03:10 [Schatten] speed reflects HP, ET reflects torque - at least in a general sense.
18:03:15 [funsdead]>[axcilla] does your new product work with the oem lip in the front?
18:03:33 [Sev] what schatten says is true, a typical CAI like AEM should show no difference on a dyno, only at speed with a device like the AP-22 by race technologies...
18:03:50 [What The] Tanq: i don't think we'll need insulation
18:03:56 [axcilla]>[funsdead] the front spoiler offer with the Dealer?
18:03:57 [racer-rob] what i did storm i connect one and compared the stock v. the new one, it was hard to tell doing it that way but with both of them, its a big improvement
18:04:31 [funsdead]>[axcilla] yep yep
18:04:32 [What The] Tanq: i went for a nice hour drive and came back. the tube was warm, but not scolding
18:04:39 [axcilla]>[funsdead] we are working on one that does, our S2000 doesn't have the oem lip
18:04:53 [Sev] Another thing, the stock s2000 airbox is already a RAM AIR system that is possibly in a better Pressure area then the break ducts... Just something to think about
18:04:55 [funsdead]>[axcilla] cool....gotcha
18:05:00 [Schatten] Sev, got one of the AP-22's? I was looking at it today.
18:05:15 [Sev] I was going to get one
18:05:20 [Schatten] very true Sev.
18:05:25 [funsdead] be back in a bit cool guys.......
18:05:30 [Sev] Then winter came :-), and I said I will wait till next year
18:05:30 [racer-rob] well with the aem i think you would get better air flow, maybe thats where the dyno show improvement
18:05:31 [Tanqueray] How is the stock box a ram system?
18:05:58 [axcilla] Some Kind Of Agreement ? ;p - Which CAI is the most bang for the buck - we have some motorheads here
18:06:00 [Schatten] I currently have the 8 dollar wal mart modification and notice no more studdering starts at stop lights - that helped that issue.
18:06:08 Spoiled enters this room
18:06:09 [axcilla]
18:06:20 [honda_s2k] How much air friction can you expect in a 120mph run? It's not going to matter if you insulate.
18:06:20 [Sev] But the tube is longer, even if you were to gain 1 psi at the filter, who says you won't loose it after all those curves and length
18:06:28 [Schatten] Tanq - ever seen say.. a Miata or a Mustang intake box? its quite out of place
18:06:32 [What The] I think for around $250 you can't beat the AEM
18:06:32 [racer-rob] anyone ever heard of prm?
18:06:41 [What The] RR, yes
18:06:46 [rstark] schatten, I did that mod to, but still had hesitation
18:06:48 [Sev] PRM=Garbage
18:07:01 [racer-rob] why do you say that sev?
18:07:04 [What The] like what Sev said about PRM
18:07:06 [Tanqueray] honda-s2k: I wasn't talking about air friction. I was talking about heat soak from the tube being in the engine compartment.
18:07:14 [Schatten] The Mustang box is in the corner fenderwell - small inlet, big box, small tube out there. Miata, same thing, but its a smaller tube opening that is placed right next to the exhaust.
18:07:19 [racer-rob] i had one on my prelude, seemed to work really well
18:07:40 [Schatten] rstark - ever twitch with the MAP sensor?
18:07:50 [rstark] tap on it?
18:07:54 [Sev] Yes, on a Prelude, type R, Si and most Hondas, it is a guarannteed improvement
18:08:00 [Schatten] yea, at least.
18:08:03 [What The] I think that with the filter being in the brake duct area, the air is very much cooler
18:08:12 [Schatten] could be map sensor or the IAT. not in my experience but the words of the board.
18:08:16 [racer-rob] on the s2000, not the same deal??
18:08:24 [Sev] ever our box is already well set-up, its only problem is hot air from the radiator at speeds below 60mph...
18:08:25 [rstark] Not yet, I will though
18:08:29 [What The] and the tubing does not heat up as the tubing is routed away from the engine bay
18:09:03 [rstark] I took the car to Honda and they could not reproduce the hesitation problem since the weather's a little cooler now
18:09:13 [racer-rob] well sev, what about the window heat shield i have seen post about on here
18:09:26 [Tanqueray] The engine end of the tube is in a hot area. It can't be avoided.
18:09:46 [Sev] window heat shield?
18:09:53 [What The] Another side to this: even IF the CAI does not make any more hp (which i CAN feel) you save the weight of the stock airbox
18:27:28 [mingster] in case you guys haven't heard, i did dyno the spoon/ID intake, no losses and no gains (as expected).
18:27:29 [Utah S2K] Rich, did you ever look up the Indy guy I gave you (i.e. digrappas friend)?
18:27:29 [Schatten] bkw - how was working with CF? I've read tutorials on how to make stuff with them, but as expensive as they say? and difficult to work with?
18:27:42 [racer-rob] i meant with aem, you knoe big filter on the end type of intake
18:27:44 [bkw] the hardest part schatten is making the molds
18:27:48 [Schatten]>[axcilla] racer-Rob <grins> I called him Bob a few times too.
18:27:50 [mingster] Utah: no, got too busy, and my guy promised me 30pcs by mid nov.
18:28:04 [Utah S2K] Cool........
18:28:17 [stbrnd] has anyone done a temp study on these new CAIs
18:28:26 [mingster] there are some very interesting stuff coming up for ID, and that's why i've been so busy
18:28:26 [S2kRob] You don't really compress air at speed enough to make a difference
18:28:34 [axcilla]>[Schatten] oops thanks ;p
18:28:34 [Utah S2K] I've had it up to 140 with no ill effects structurally on the CAI .
18:28:44 [bkw] other than that its pretty simple.. i learned by reading instructions on the internet then going to this shop who sells carbon fiber weave and epoxy
18:28:45 [racer-rob] its very simple air/fuel ratio, have you guys heard of that???
18:28:55 [What The] stbrnd: no test. but the tube is warm after 1 hr of hard driving
18:29:03 [Tanqueray] I thought positive pressure in the intake would make the sensors freak out, like on the superchargers.
18:29:03 [Tanqueray] I thought positive pressure in the intake would make the sensors freak out, like on the superchargers.
18:29:24 [racer-rob] too much air=bad, too much fuel=bad right mixture=good
18:29:34 [rstark] What ever happened to this extension: http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/10/HON...91062918_pv.jpg
18:29:41 [bkw] the intake was my first trial with something with bends and angles, i first carved a small box out of styrofoam for the piece that goes into the oem air intake horn thing
18:29:44 [Schatten] correct, but the ECU should adjust for that.
18:29:51 [Sev] It has to be more direct to be worthwile
18:29:56 [lane] The sensors only have trouble w/lots of pressure, CAI's can't create that type of pressure (asaik).
18:29:57 [What The] RR: i thought the ecu automatically adjusts the air/fuel ratio?
18:30:00 [bkw] then i made the bent pieces seperately
18:30:03 [S2kRob] Yeah, okay, but you can gain the same amount by having a properly tuned intkae manifold
18:30:05 lane exits from this room
18:30:08 lane enters this room
18:30:08 boiler enters this room
18:30:10 [stbrnd] No matter how much air you "ram" at the filter it is only going to take so much. Past the filter it is temp reduction only
18:30:11 [bkw] i fused all the pieces with carbon fiber
18:30:15 [bkw] its really ugly
18:30:22 [S2kRob] Test
18:30:26 [bkw] but im sure my next try will come out much cleaner
18:30:28 [Utah S2K] My sensors are running fine ...I plugged into the OBD-II with the ole laptop and even at speed sensors were normal.....
18:30:28 [racer-rob] not if the air box is being rammed with air all the time, oopss i mean part of the time unless you drive at 75 mph all the time
18:30:37 [Schatten] bkw - still interested in seeing pics. expensive?
18:30:47 [bkw] not really
18:30:47 [S2kRob] How is it working with carbon fiber?
18:30:53 StrangeDaze enters this room
18:30:56 [bkw] i got all the pieces for under $50
18:31:02 [Schatten] I keep it under 75 until I get out of my apartment complex. =)
18:31:06 [bkw] i'll take pics once i get a new digcam
18:31:07 [Utah S2K] Welcome Strange.....
18:31:19 [bkw] someone took pics of it at the fall colors meet.. im sure someone will post pics eventually
18:31:36 [What The] RR: i'm wondering just how much air the stock box really gets. That plastic piece in front of it looks like it restricts airflow
18:31:46 [StrangeDaze] hello
18:32:13 [stbrnd] enough to give you a 240 hp engine
18:32:14 [Utah S2K] ......subject is CAI's and intake mods......
18:32:19 [What The] If you look at it, there's only about 4 or 5 small "slits" to let air in after hitting the radiator fins
18:32:20 [bkw] inside the airbox there are channels the air has to flow thru, im sure its restrictive, and im positive its just so that it'll quiet the car down
18:32:24 [What The] hi Strange
18:32:28 [racer-rob] what the, i was looking at it today and i think it probablt does, and who know how much the ram air thing woks anyway, we just dont have the resources
18:32:56 [Sev] A ram air system for it to be effetive gas to have the following characteristics: 1: Be in a high pressure area, 2: be very direct 3: No or little bends, 4: Made of low heat transfer matreial: The AEM and Injen both fail these measures.
18:33:01 [What The] RR: i took that plastic piece off to allow more airflow into the stock box
18:33:04 [bkw] what the, have you cut out the side plastic thing on your bumper for more cold air?
18:33:13 [gpiazza] Any idea if these type of mods efftect the Honda warrantee?
18:33:19 [mingster] Sev: well said.
18:33:20 [Utah S2K] The channels act as a "water drop". If you look at the left side you'll notice a hole in the bottom of the box.
18:33:23 [Schatten] bkw - yeup! silencers. but the 'box' style intake, not exactly sure what the volume is trying to do besides quiet the intake down
18:33:23 [racer-rob] more hot air???? what the
18:33:27 [S2kRob] Sev, there stock airbox is way to big to pressurize at normal speeds.
18:33:30 [bkw] gpiazza depends what part of the warrantee your speak of
18:33:40 [mingster] if you got the AEM and sucked water into the engine, no warranty
18:33:45 [What The] bkw: yes. I cut the fake brake duct to allow more airflow into the filter
18:33:50 [stbrnd] why not get a dyno with and without with a big turbo fan blowing at the front of the car to simulate air movement.
18:33:53 [S2kRob] Heat transfer properties are not very important.
18:33:59 [bkw] the intake box has a built in resonator unlike other hondas where they hide the resonator inside the fender well
18:34:00 [What The] s2krob, can't read the yellow!
18:34:03 [racer-rob] unless you carried the stock box in your trunk ming
18:34:08 [Utah S2K] S2k Rob...lose the Yellow........
18:34:16 deeman enters this room
18:34:22 [bkw] thats why i think cai's gain more HP on other hondas than our s2000's
18:34:24 [mingster] yeah rob
18:34:31 [S2kRob] Air is moving way too fast in the intake to receive much if any heat from the tube
18:34:32 [Utah S2K] Welcome deeman.....
18:34:37 [S2kRob] How's that
18:34:47 [mingster] i thought we'd have a bigger crowd than this.
18:34:51 [Utah S2K] Better........
18:34:58 [What The] Sev: regarding the heat issue, the stock box tubing gets waaay hotter than the AEM tubing does
18:35:01 [S2kRob] Stock airbox is fundamentally flawed in WHERE it draws in it's air
18:35:04 [mingster] pink is your color utah, it suits you
18:35:06 [Schatten] bkw - could be, I also think its why sev was saying our intake - in stock form - is more of a CAI than most intakes from the factory.
18:35:12 [Utah S2K] 18-20 isn't bad....should pick up later.....
18:35:13 [deeman] Thanks, U2K
18:35:22 [bkw] schatten i agree with sev
18:35:29 [gpiazza] mingster, that was one of my concerns!
18:35:33 [S2kRob] The bends on the AEM are shallow enough so as not to cause restriction
18:35:37 [stbrnd] the tube can certainly heat air as it moves through it, its the way my furnace works
18:35:37 [racer-rob] i think the answer is in the heat resistant extension
18:35:41 [bkw] and for $200+ for a possible 5-10hp gain just isnt worth it for me..
18:35:48 [S2kRob] Remember bends themselves are not bad
18:36:03 [Utah S2K] Thanks....I use it only to piss off Shellie(it is her color don't you know). But according to board edicate....first come....first served .
18:36:03 [Utah S2K] Thanks....I use it only to piss off Shellie(it is her color don't you know). But according to board edicate....first come....first served .
18:36:07 [lane] Stock intake is a great compromise between best intake and safety, I think.
18:36:14 [S2kRob] stbrnd, you're intake is flowing air at probably 10 times the velocity your furnace does
18:36:21 [racer-rob] $200 for 5-10 hp, thats cheap, inly if i had the hard evidence
18:36:33 [Schatten] if it is 5-10 hp, it would be worth it, especially if you are only getting 200hp at the wheels, 5-10 in % wise would be a rather large margin for this car.
18:36:33 [S2kRob] The air is in the intake for maybe 0.5 seconds when you are at full throttle
18:36:44 [What The] Sev: from my own tests. after an hour of hard drving, if you put your hand on the stock box tubing, it is literally too hot to touch. with my aem same conditions, i can still touch the tubing and even hold it there
18:36:45 [Sev] Air does get heated as it passes through if the intake is hot
18:36:45 [bkw] i spent 400 for a 50hp increase on my old audi..
18:36:55 [stbrnd] only during constant movement
18:36:58 [bkw] but thats a totally different animal
18:37:02 [S2kRob] Not at full throttle
18:37:20 [S2kRob] I can't imagine it being more than 5 degrees at the MAX
18:37:25 [mingster] try touching the air filter with spoon/ID intake duct, it's actually COLD after a long drive.
18:37:28 [bkw] hey sev, what group were you in on saturday?
18:37:30 [racer-rob] well we all can spend $500 on a 50 shot, but how good is that for the car
18:37:31 [Schatten] you could always put caliper paint or something of the like on the tubing if you are that worried. ugly but works.
18:37:39 [rstark] anyone have info on this extension??? http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/10/HON...91062918_pv.jpg
18:37:55 [S2kRob] Figure out the air flow the engine requires at 9000rpm.
18:37:56 [racer-rob] what about the aem cai witht the jr filter on the end??? huh huh huhh
18:37:58 [Schatten] that's the '02 extension
18:38:04 [bkw] hey that looks like my piece that i made.. just looks much more oem
18:38:06 [S2kRob] Figure out the volume of the intake tract.
18:38:10 [S2kRob] Divide.
18:38:10 S2KTroup enters this room
18:38:15 [What The] Schatten: funny thing i thought about was that we are willing to pay $1000 for an exhaust that makes MAYBE 2-3 hp if even that, but we go quezzy over a $250 cai intake that makes at LEAST 4hp!
18:38:18 S2Kguy enters this room
18:38:21 [mingster] racer-rob: you have a good idea, i'll look into it!
18:38:26 [bkw] sev, agressive?
18:38:27 [stbrnd] is it possible to insulate the AEM tubing at all?
18:38:33 [bkw] header wrap
18:38:34 [S2kRob] That gives you the the flow rate through the intkae. I'm telling you it's VERY high.
18:38:35 [Utah S2K] All I know is with the Import unit on my car I have to wait freakin forever to get to three bars....colder air is definitely effecting the warm up time.....and the butt dyno don't lie!
18:38:39 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:38:39 [racer-rob] ok mingster send me the prototype
18:38:42 [bkw] but it'll look kinda dooky
18:38:48 [Schatten] header wrap? for insulation?
18:38:50 [Utah S2K] Welcome S2K Guy......
18:38:54 [S2Kguy] Hey fellas...
18:38:59 [Utah S2K] Howdy Marc!!
18:39:01 [stbrnd] What the, the exhaust sounds
in a tunnel though 18:39:01 [stbrnd] What the, the exhaust sounds
in a tunnel though 18:39:11 [racer-rob] actually im trying to come up with my own invention
18:39:13 [Yellow S2000] Hi guys
18:39:18 [Schatten] WhatThe - comprende, yet a mustang or camaro - 200 bucks will get you an easy 35hp if not more =)
18:39:22 [What The] stbrnd: i agree, that's why i got one
18:39:24 [Sev] IMO, the intake of the s2000 is designed with much more in mind, it is designed to resonate properly and flow properly throughout the power band...
18:39:28 [Utah S2K] Just finished vacuuming all the leaves out of my intake from this weekend .
18:39:31 [S2Kguy] wazzup Utah
18:39:34 [axcilla] Hello Marc
18:39:38 [S2Kguy] hey What The
18:39:39 [mingster] you'll have to pay for it bro
18:39:49 [What The] yo Sk2guy!
18:39:50 [S2kRob] Intake resonation is only important after the throttle body, though
18:39:55 [bkw] was jerry your group leader?
18:40:01 [deeman] Wh8ich of the CAI's have provision to prevent H2O induction?
18:40:06 [S2Kguy] hey Ax
18:40:10 [racer-rob] shit, just cut a hole in your hood, theres no way the air will ever get heatyed up in time
18:40:11 lane exits from this room
18:40:12 lane exits from this room
18:40:12 [S2kRob] Intake resonation in the intake is just to quiet it down. Who cares about that?
18:40:15 lane enters this room
18:40:26 [racer-rob] deeman, aen doed
18:40:26 [Sev] This is not a Civic or prelude, and a CAI like AEM is not going to give the same results as those cars
18:40:37 [racer-rob] aem does
18:40:42 [What The] Deeman: the AEM has the best chance since you can add the bypass valve
18:40:43 [axcilla] racer-rob 0however very tacky - yes it probably would work
18:40:47 [S2kRob] But it HAS given results on the dyno.
18:40:52 [Yellow S2000] Hello David
18:40:53 [Utah S2K] deeman......I think as long as you leave the divider in the stock box your OK.
18:40:53 [Tanqueray] deeman: the Injen and AEM intakes are over a foot off the ground and protected by the undertray.
18:41:04 VTEXTC enters this room
18:41:04 [bkw] our car is really hard to draw power out of.. honda has already done that for us.. ok, besides forced induction
18:41:06 [Schatten] my roomie has a civic, but where is the intake placed on it? is it the same ? where you have air being sucked in the hood cracks?
18:41:11 [racer-rob] im all about the end result,lol
18:41:18 [VTEXTC] Evening folks
18:41:23 [S2KTroup] I have the Injen CAI if anyone wants my opinion
18:41:26 [S2Kguy] Forgive me, I'm coming to this late, did we decide which CAI to purchase Utah?
18:41:27 Sev exits from this room
18:41:27 Sev enters this room
18:41:30 [racer-rob] shoot
18:41:30 [S2kRob] t
18:41:35 [mingster] what we need is to have the CAI equipped cars on a track side by side.
18:41:37 [What The] the AEM makes a difference you CAN feel. it's not a questionable "is it just me" feeling. you can feel it
18:41:38 [axcilla] lo VTEXTC
18:41:38 [axcilla] lo VTEXTC
18:41:48 [Schatten] S2Kguy - no decisions really. just discussing. its all up to you and your pocketbook
18:41:52 [bkw] are you sure its just not the sound thats making you feel that way?
18:41:53 [S2Kguy] Mingster ROCKS!!!!!!!!
18:42:00 [Tanqueray] With the same driver in each car...
18:42:00 [VTEXTC] axcilla! Sorry I didnt call today...1-800# didnt work from where I was.
18:42:05 [S2Kguy] hey Schat, didn't see you...
18:42:06 [mingster] LOL, thank you
18:42:10 [deeman] Does the AEM come w/ bypass valve?
18:42:15 [Utah S2K] Still discussijng.....lots of folks have their opinions which is why we're all here......except 9K
18:42:21 [Schatten] howdee =)
18:42:23 [What The] bkw: i had that sound when i took the stock airbox top off, you can feel the car bog down
18:42:35 [What The] deeman: no it does not. you have to purchase it extra
18:42:38 [S2Kguy] Now Ming, where the hell is my oil for my JR?
18:42:43 [bkw] axcilla, hey were can i get some new nubs for my dead pedal? i had her detailed last week and they vacuumed up the nubs i was saving on the floor
18:42:50 [axcilla]>[VTEXTC] hmm direct dial 1-910-575-4085 or PM me your phone number and I can contact you.
18:42:52 [bkw] what the, i know what you mean
18:42:55 [S2Kguy] just kidding, it's no where near dirty yet
18:42:59 [What The] bkw: lol i have the same problem too
18:43:04 [mingster] s2kguy: You haven't gotten it yet? can you email or PM me your last name?
18:43:07 [Schatten] What The - THANK YOU! everyone says it is gaining, but its not, Rich even dynoed it. its just psychological, and it does bog down like a carborator is flooded =)
18:43:09 [racer-rob] there are so many variables, air temp ambiant temp, humidity, the list goes on and on
18:43:20 [axcilla] For need of any "nubs" please PM me with your address and they will besent promptly.
18:43:20 [VTEXTC] axcilla..sounds good...I will PM you later on
18:43:21 [What The] Dave, i need some extra rubber thingamajigs
18:43:28 [bkw]
18:43:31 [bkw] anks axicilla
18:43:37 [VTEXTC] axcilla...kewl..will pm you later on
18:43:37 [Sev] Some people used to take the covetr of the stock intake box off and think they have more power. Just because it is louder, doesn't mean it is faster
18:43:39 [stbrnd] I still want to see a TEMPERATURE test. Since this is a COLD air device, lets measure the temp
18:43:41 [What The] cool
18:43:47 [S2Kguy] Whoa dude, I haven't even ordered it...last I heard it wasn't available yet...is it now? Price?
18:44:17 [mingster] $11.99 plus shipping
18:44:19 [mingster]
18:44:24 [What The] Sev Schatten: that's what i mean, with the aem regardless of the sound it does make a noticable difference in power. there is more low end torque
18:44:27 [mingster] i thought you ordered it already.
18:44:27 [S2Kguy]
18:44:29 [bkw] mingster, for what?
18:44:30 benlavigne enters this room
18:44:37 [racer-rob] stbrnd, i thin cold air really means ram air, we just cant use that terms because of the domestics,
18:44:44 [mingster] JR Filter and cleaner kit
18:44:44 [benlavigne] sup all...
mingster] hey ben
18:44:52 [What The] Taking off the cover sounds cool, but it bogs the car down
18:44:54 [bkw] ahh
18:44:59 [S2kRob] Cold air and ram air are two different things
18:45:03 [lane] Is installation difficulty even a consideration on a CAI purchase, or just cost per HP gain?
18:45:11 [axcilla] hello ben
18:45:12 [mingster] s2krob: you are right
18:45:12 [racer-rob] thats how much the filter cost mingster??
18:45:19 [mingster] $55 + $5
18:45:23 [bkw] racer-rob, cleaner only
18:45:25 [S2kRob] Mingster, loved the videos
18:45:26 [benlavigne] HEY MINGSTER!
18:45:37 [mingster] thanks, i like them too!
18:45:40 [racer-rob] hey ming??? you need to set-up online ordering, i wouold have bought already
18:45:42 [S2Kguy] Hey Sev, I've been missing the boat on taking off the airbox cover, I never did it until the other day...now I'm addicted, I always take it off when I cruise. I can't tell the difference in power at all...less or more...probably less
18:45:45 [benlavigne] ya the videos rocked
18:45:46 [S2kRob] Recommend everyone here get the togue battle
18:45:54 [S2KTroup] As far as heat build up on the Injen intake I can say it negligable. I just got through a drive through the mountains last weekend and when I got home after 200+ miules I could grab my intake at the throttlebody by far the hotest end with no discomfort at all.
18:45:56 [What The] Sev: with the stock airbox off, even with the sound there. you can feel the loss of power
18:46:00 [Schatten] Richard's online ordering will be implimented soon.
18:46:04 [Utah S2K] Hey Marc.....join me in the other room for a minute to discuss Alpine Loop.
18:46:07 [Schatten] Same with Bulletproof's.
18:46:12 [Utah S2K] You game?
18:46:18 [What The] S2Ktroup, i have the same story with the AEM
18:46:18 [stbrnd] has anybody figured out the HP/ degrees F yet I have seen 5F=1 HP
18:46:21 [mingster] i'm running the online ordering beta thing.
18:46:26 [bkw] alpine loop for cva?
18:46:28 [S2kRob] BTW the service was excellent.
18:46:41 [racer-rob] what is beta??? mac stuff???
18:46:41 [S2kRob] Stupid customs broker ripped me off, but what can you do.
18:46:46 [mingster] http://www.importdevelopment.net/paypal_s2...s2000engine.htm
18:46:49 [mingster] check it out.
18:46:50 [S2Kguy] I never felt it lose power WT, but I don't doubt you at all
18:46:55 [Utah S2K] cva?
18:47:01 [racer-rob] ughhh paypal
18:47:02 [Schatten] beta is like... the competitor for vhs =)
18:47:11 [mingster] Customs Broker ALWAYS rip you off, why do you think stuff from Japan's so expensive!
18:47:13 [bkw] car stereo stuff.. i guess i was wrong
18:47:18 [benlavigne] who runs ES Motorsports? some guy named ming...that isn't you is it richard?
18:47:23 [Sev] /TO Schatten some people used to argue otherwise in the old days My point is you will NOT FEEL any difference from a 3-4 HP intake
18:47:25 [What The] s2kguy: the car feels bogged down and is less responsive with the stock airbox top off
18:47:27 [Yellow S2000] Utah.. Sure
18:47:29 [Schatten] racer-rob - you can call Rich with credit card info.
18:47:31 [bkw] woo nice site mingster
18:47:33 [mingster] you can send the order and call up with your CC so i can process it.
18:47:41 Utah S2K exits from this room
18:47:42 [Schatten] /To Sev =D
18:47:43 [S2kRob] Yeah, but they charged $10 for a $20 package - never had that happen before
18:47:47 [mingster] i'm still working on it.
18:47:50 [S2Kguy] Really? I didn't notice, and I was looking for it with all the threads on the subject
18:47:54 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:03 [bkw] anyone wanna buy a carbotech $50 gift certificate?
18:48:04 [S2kRob] Mingster, what are you working on for ID?
18:48:16 [racer-rob] sweet mingster, is that a new feature??
18:48:28 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:28 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:32 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:48:39 [bkw] sema.. i'll be there
18:48:40 [Schatten] anyone going to SEMA?
18:48:41 Yellow S2000 exits from this room
18:48:43 [S2Kguy] Tell you the truth, a couple HP either way won't kill me, I just love the sound
18:48:51 [mingster] i'm working on some new stuff. you'll note we're Advan/Work/C-West/Top Fuel/Top Secret vendor now
18:48:58 [Schatten] mini - S2k meet at SEMA for those who do and do not have theirs there?
18:48:59 [What The] S2Kguy: i used to take it off every once in a whiles just for the sound, but the performance loss (lack of throttle) made me put the top back on
18:49:01 [mingster] and also J's racing
18:49:07 [bkw] schatten are you going?
18:49:15 [Schatten] bkw - yeup!
18:49:18 [mingster] who's going to SEMA?
18:49:20 [S2kRob] Mingster, can you get the Advan TCII's
18:49:22 [bkw] cool
18:49:24 [mingster] yeah, Top Fuel
18:49:24 [bkw] me too
18:49:29 [S2kRob] They're the ones with the hollow spokes
18:49:32 [mingster] But all this is AFTER SEMA
18:49:33 [benlavigne] I hope I will be
18:49:38 [S2Kguy] I always put it back on at the end of the night WT, dunno why, but I do
18:49:38 [What The] How about that turbo kit they have!!?
18:49:53 [bkw] when are you guys going to be there?
18:50:12 [mingster] that turbo kit doesn't work with LHD cars
18:50:21 [Schatten] afternoon of the 31st through sat around noon. do you have a car? maybe you can take me to the airport on sat. =)
18:50:22 [What The] doh! dammit
18:50:34 [Sev] Everyone has their opinion, lets remember though that we are talking differences that are NOT noticable, it doesn't really matter which intake you buy, the AEM, the Injen, the Mingster etension or my extension... It is whichever makes you happy
18:50:37 [bkw] im flying in on the 29th
18:50:54 [mingster] sorry guys, back to CAI. and Sev is right on, whatever you like you should get.
18:50:55 [bkw] hey sev, how much are you going to charge for your duct?
18:51:02 [Sev] If you like load intake sounds, then I would surely buy the AEM or Injen
18:51:13 [Sev] Probably around $89 shipped
18:51:20 [bkw] wow
18:51:24 [bkw] cost effective
18:51:30 [What The] Sev: another advantage if you use the aem/injen. you WILL have extra luggage space in the engine. and it makes changing the oil a whole hell of a lot easier!
18:51:38 [What The] ;p
18:51:40 [Sev] If you want an extension that looks good and is good, go for the mingster
18:51:42 [S2Kguy] All I need is a Turbocharger/Intercooler kit with a ceramic impellar and 8PSI, well...maybe a compressor bypass valve kit...lol
18:51:50 [S2Kguy] maybe a new diff...lol
18:51:53 [Sev] f you want something cheaper that still works, go for mine
18:51:53 VTEXTC exits from this room
18:52:08 [Schatten] what the - agreed, especially if you have an Xbrace
18:52:09 [Sev] f you want something very cheap, buy a $5 mat and slap it on yourself
18:52:15 [racer-rob] just had a few great thoughts, anyone care to hear them mingster???
18:52:53 [What The] it's amazing how much space the stock box takes up..my engine bay is empty now!
18:52:53 gregstevens enters this room
18:52:59 [What The] yo Greg!
18:53:01 [Schatten] howdee greg
18:53:02 [racer-rob] anyone ever dynoed with the heat or ac on?
18:53:07 [gregstevens] hallo!
18:53:07 [rstark] hey g
18:53:10 [Sev] Hi Gregggggggggg
18:53:25 [mingster] sure
18:53:25 [axcilla] lo greg
18:53:25 [Sev] Why didn't you come to fall colours?
18:53:28 [gregstevens] yo sev...how's it going?
18:53:36 [Sev] GOOOOOOOOOOd
18:53:36 [S2Kguy] there was a fella at S2Kdays that had the HKS exhaust and no airbox cover...OMG...I almost lost it when he came by. I've got to have that sound!
18:53:38 mingster exits from this room
18:53:39 mingster enters this room
18:53:42 [S2Kguy] hey GS
18:53:42 [stbrnd] what would be the best way to find out which has the best HP gain
18:53:46 [gregstevens] i could get away... looks like you guys had a blast tho!
18:53:50 [racer-rob] since we are talking about cold air, what would be the pros and cons on having the ac directed into the airbox
18:54:01 [gregstevens] hey A
18:54:23 [Sev] The AC would take more power then it would give, at high speeds, it would be a restriction
18:54:24 [mingster] you lose more HP than you gain with the AC pointed and on.
18:54:35 [gregstevens] that wouldn't be a bad thing, except for the parasitic drag that the compressor puts on the motor
18:54:39 [S2Kguy] while your at it RACER-BOB, maybe you could design a tray to fit over the airbox so we could fill it with ice at every station...no joke
18:54:48 [racer-rob] or even the tube , right into the tube, behind the filter, you sure mingster?
18:54:52 [stbrnd] the AC pulls power away from the flywell to drive the compressor
18:55:09 [racer-rob] well dry ice does sit nicely in the airbox
18:55:15 [mingster] how about pure oxygen bottle? better than NOS?
18:55:19 [S2Kguy]
18:55:25 [racer-rob] different pullies for the ac???
18:55:28 [gregstevens] but a little explosive!
18:55:32 [S2Kguy] oxygen is impossible, too unstable
18:55:39 [mingster] how fast do the dry ice "melt"?
18:55:48 [S2Kguy] that's the reason for Nitros, it's a stable carrier
18:55:54 mingster exits from this room
18:55:58 mingster enters this room
18:55:59 [What The] how about spraying NOS on the inake tubing to cool the piping down
18:56:00 [racer-rob] depends on how long you leave it in there
18:56:01 [axcilla] oxygen -= fire
18:56:01 [S2Kguy] takes a while I think Mingster
18:56:06 [Schatten] dry ice is what my old roomie used to use at the drag strip to cool the intercooler and turbo on the typhoon.
18:56:06 [stbrnd] still will pull on the engine decreasing power.
18:56:30 [racer-rob] im trying to be productive here sev, help me out
18:56:33 S2KTroup exits from this room
18:56:47 [gregstevens] how was the discussion tonight? i was busy
18:56:47 [stbrnd] I have seen the dry ice and also liquid nitrogen used.
18:56:52 [racer-rob] what abvout a little fan in the stock airbox?
18:56:56 [axcilla] liquid nitrogen and propane
18:56:58 [gregstevens] has anyone been here the whole time?
18:57:12 [racer-rob] me, been here too long
18:57:24 [S2Kguy] what you have to remember here Racer-Rob is that everything has been tried, these things will work, but the question is the consequences and cost
18:57:27 [Sev] BACK TO THE TOPIC THEN
18:57:28 [axcilla] I'm recording the session greg
18:57:33 [Schatten] I'd actually like to see about the plenum spacer that UL was working on some time ago. that will be a rather inexpensive addition to the intake improvements.
18:57:33 [Schatten] I'd actually like to see about the plenum spacer that UL was working on some time ago. that will be a rather inexpensive addition to the intake improvements.
18:57:35 [gregstevens] copy and paste the conversation in an email, ok? send it to greg@s2kca.com
18:57:40 [S2Kguy] lol @ Ax
18:57:49 [gregstevens] ok, david, nevermind, racer-bob!
18:57:51 Utah S2K enters this room
18:57:57 [Schatten] done greg
18:57:57 JBoggs enters this room
18:57:59 [gregstevens] ute!
18:58:03 [S2Kguy] hey again Utah
18:58:06 Yellow S2000 enters this room
18:58:15 [What The] yo Utah, Jboggs!
18:58:18 [racer-rob] s2kguy, just because someone tried it doesnt mean they put 110 per cent into it
18:58:22 [S2Kguy] why was everyone calling you...uh...nevermind
18:58:23 [What The] hey Yellow
18:58:27 [JBoggs] hey
18:58:27 [mingster] there's something akin to a venturi plate deal we're looking at, but don't know if it'll help.
18:58:34 [S2Kguy] I didnt' mean on this car Rob
18:58:47 [Utah S2K] Howdy Greg....Marc and I were just reviewing this weekends run in Timpanogos State Park here in Utah .
18:58:47 [Sev] IMO, I wouldn't change my stock airbox unless I was to buy the mugen, All I would do is add an extension otherwise
18:59:00 [axcilla]>[gregstevens] I get it to you, I'm going to post it though (I'll take out any questionable material against honda
18:59:11 [racer-rob] this car is unique, its not your run of the mill civic or integra
18:59:17 [S2Kguy] when can we go off topic?
18:59:33 [Sev] NEVER
18:59:36 [Sev]
18:59:37 [racer-rob] why mugen sev?
18:59:38 [What The] lol
18:59:42 [S2Kguy] *tear
18:59:43 [gregstevens]>[axcilla] cool, you don't need to send it to me...just post it...i was going to just send it to the admins
18:59:45 [Utah S2K] ROFLMAO.....
18:59:58 [Sev] maybe we should create an Off topic in the chat
18:59:59 [mingster] because mugen is the best?
19:00:04 [S2Kguy] but i have an interesting question, one no one has asked...
19:00:04 [Utah S2K] You can always create a room to the right.
19:00:16 [Sev] If you are willing to pay the money, MUGEN is the best
19:00:22 [S2Kguy] suk, thanks for your support Utah
19:00:29 [S2Kguy] lol
19:00:35 [racer-rob] lol mugen is the best, what parts do the cart teams use on their hondas
19:00:37 [Utah S2K] A feature of the chat room is to create your own room for your own topic.
19:00:41 [Sev] There is a reason those parts are expensive, they test much more then a dyno with the bumper off...
19:00:42 [axcilla] Just who is this MUGEN guy
19:00:59 [S2Kguy] yeah, and stay there by myself the rest of the night...no thanks
19:00:59 [Utah S2K] Anyone can do this not just "officials".
19:01:08 [gregstevens] yea, what sev is saying!
19:01:13 [S2Kguy] lol
19:01:14 What The exits from this room
19:01:14 What The enters this room
19:01:24 [Utah S2K] Type a subject in the Create/Join box and hit enter......
19:01:34 [What The] too broke to get Mugen lol
19:01:37 [racer-rob] will the jr filter fit on the aem???
19:01:41 [Utah S2K] A new room will be formed and folks can join you.....
19:01:46 [What The] too broke to get Mugen
19:01:46 What The exits from this room
19:01:49 [What The] RR. i don't think so
19:01:55 [mingster] JR offers a universal filter, i'm sure something will fit on it.
19:01:56 [S2Kguy] thanks anyway utah, I'll run it by everyone when they get bored
19:02:05 [Schatten] the AEM/Injen utilize what kind of filter?
19:02:11 charlie enters this room
19:02:16 [What The] Schatten: K&N
19:02:18 [mingster] i think they have their own filters
19:02:19 Utah S2K exits from this room
19:02:28 [charlie]
19:02:30 Utah S2K enters this room
19:02:30 [Sev] Wuzzzzzzzzap charlie?????????
19:02:30 [What The] Sev: i got the aem
19:02:31 [axcilla] lo charlie
19:02:42 [JBoggs] aem makes their own filters now
19:02:50 [Utah S2K] Welcome Charlie....
19:03:01 [What The] bkw: free!
19:03:03 [S2Kguy] hey Charlie...
19:03:04 [bkw] bastid
19:03:06 [What The]
19:03:09 [racer-rob] how do you feel about cleaning your filters, i heard that once you clean it , it loosens up the dirt and it can be sucked into your engine
19:03:10 [charlie] hey Sev was nice meeting you this weekend hope the ride home was uneventful
19:03:12 [mingster] i wonder if we'll break the 21 people mark...
19:03:20 [charlie] hi gang
19:03:29 [axcilla] The Max was 28 last week
19:03:31 [bkw] charile, you were at the event as well?
19:03:31 [What The] bkw: i think retail is 320. there was a g/b for 250 or something like that
19:03:43 [What The] Sev: lol
19:03:44 [Utah S2K] Been hovering there for awhile.....
19:03:53 [Schatten] fyi - I'll be taking orders this week on a special for the AEM's and Injen's. They will not be shipped this week, but next week - just PM me for pricing.
19:03:55 [racer-rob] $320 fror what?
19:03:55 [racer-rob] $320 fror what?
19:04:01 [What The] btw: does anyone here have the Zeal B6's?
19:04:17 [What The] RR: retail for the aem cai
19:04:18 [mingster] Silversurfer has the B6, along with Socal28
Community Organizer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,641
Likes: 143
From: Chapel Hill, NC
Well sorry I missed this chat but I do have something to add. Nobody is actually doing real testing on these things.
I actually tested my CAI with a AP-22 and found that the CAI gave much more consistant power. Like within hundreths of a second on 30-70 mph runs in a single gear.(usually all within the same 10th of a second. Without the CAI ie. stock the variations were HUGE 3-4 even 5 tenths of a second......thats a half second! Only took like 15 seconds to make these runs. Some were lower then the CAI but many were much higher.
I don't think that getting many cars with CAI's on them and running them but doing serious scientific testing will yield the results everybody is looking for. Though I KNOW that in this industry that is just not going to happen because it might show that their product does nothing or hampers performance! Not to say that none of them do anything.
I do know that my CAI "Mingsters" gives more consistant power. Keeping me from loosing power at its best.
I pulled out the radiator shield on my car and drove it like that for months I felt more power. I put it back in one day after knowing how the car behaved and was missing the power that was there before abover 35mph and definitly the pull at highway speeds. I took it out again and its back!!!
I don't want to start a heated debate on this topic again but I am happy and I do firmly believe that the best you can really hope for is truely to get more consistant gains.
If you get a MUGEN CAI I know that you will get more power than stock and over other CAI's but well I am not up for spending that kind of money......if I could.....I definitly would!!!!!!!!!
I actually tested my CAI with a AP-22 and found that the CAI gave much more consistant power. Like within hundreths of a second on 30-70 mph runs in a single gear.(usually all within the same 10th of a second. Without the CAI ie. stock the variations were HUGE 3-4 even 5 tenths of a second......thats a half second! Only took like 15 seconds to make these runs. Some were lower then the CAI but many were much higher.
I don't think that getting many cars with CAI's on them and running them but doing serious scientific testing will yield the results everybody is looking for. Though I KNOW that in this industry that is just not going to happen because it might show that their product does nothing or hampers performance! Not to say that none of them do anything.
I do know that my CAI "Mingsters" gives more consistant power. Keeping me from loosing power at its best.
I pulled out the radiator shield on my car and drove it like that for months I felt more power. I put it back in one day after knowing how the car behaved and was missing the power that was there before abover 35mph and definitly the pull at highway speeds. I took it out again and its back!!!
I don't want to start a heated debate on this topic again but I am happy and I do firmly believe that the best you can really hope for is truely to get more consistant gains.
If you get a MUGEN CAI I know that you will get more power than stock and over other CAI's but well I am not up for spending that kind of money......if I could.....I definitly would!!!!!!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,425
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From: Kirkland
pulled out the radiator shield on my car and drove it like that for months I felt more power. I put it back in one day after knowing how the car behaved and was missing the power that was there before abover 35mph and definitly the pull at highway speeds. I took it out again and its back!!!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 972
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From: Near The Ocean
Originally posted by Muz
Thanks for posting the chat transcript axcilla.
Thanks for posting the chat transcript axcilla.
As far as the AIR GUIDE - we have done extensive testing, and to take it out hinders performance, by heating the air cleaner by 10 degrees and the radiator by almost 20degrees. The GUIDE was put there by Honda for a reason !
axcilla
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 1
From: You wish
Perhaps someone could explain why they believe that a cool outside surface on the intake tube is necessarily a good thing?
After all, the intake tube is exposed to the ambient heat of the engine bay. If the outside of the tube is cool, what happened to the heat being absorbed by it? The only source of cooling for the intake tube is the intake air, which means it has to be transferring heat to the intake air.
This is not to say that the CAI's under discussion are providing hot air to the intake, just that a cool outer surface is not necessarilya good thing. A tube with good insulation would maintain a larger gradient between the intake air and the outside of the tube - hence you wouldn't necessarily want the outside to be cool. Unfortunately, its hard to measure the inside surface temp.
UL
After all, the intake tube is exposed to the ambient heat of the engine bay. If the outside of the tube is cool, what happened to the heat being absorbed by it? The only source of cooling for the intake tube is the intake air, which means it has to be transferring heat to the intake air.
This is not to say that the CAI's under discussion are providing hot air to the intake, just that a cool outer surface is not necessarilya good thing. A tube with good insulation would maintain a larger gradient between the intake air and the outside of the tube - hence you wouldn't necessarily want the outside to be cool. Unfortunately, its hard to measure the inside surface temp.
UL
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Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 972
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From: Near The Ocean
Originally posted by Pinky
Go get yourself a AP-22 do pulls in 3rd gear from 30-70 for 10 runs with the shield on then take it off and do 10 of the same over the same length of road at the same temp and get back to me on the results!
BEFORE YOU CALL BULL SH!T TRY IT FOR YOURSELF.......HAVE YOU?!?
Go get yourself a AP-22 do pulls in 3rd gear from 30-70 for 10 runs with the shield on then take it off and do 10 of the same over the same length of road at the same temp and get back to me on the results!
BEFORE YOU CALL BULL SH!T TRY IT FOR YOURSELF.......HAVE YOU?!?
however when it heats the air cleaner and radiator by over 15 degrees, it could only help in short runs.
here's your link
http://www.hondas2000accessories.com/serv03.htm
The air induction ON - means the SHEILD was taken OFF
We had to do 40-60 hours of testing and data collection thanks to WRS2K
, when testing the front grill.axcilla
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,425
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From: Kirkland
I doubt it is of any benefit since it is there to guide air into the intake. Taking it off probably hinders performance if nothing else...
I pulled out the radiator shield on my car and drove it like that for months I felt more power. I put it back in one day after knowing how the car behaved and was missing the power that was there before abover 35mph and definitly the pull at highway speeds. I took it out again and its back!!!
Back in the days when I just bought the car and was more gullible about claims made on this board, I took off the air guide based on your experiences. I felt no gains. In fact, I felt a loss in power. There was much more hesitation during acceleration and I believe axcilla's done some tests to show that there are definite temperature gains. In other words, removing the air guide increases under-the-hood temps more than sticking a perforated front grill on the car.
We might be splitting hairs here, but it's a pretty good discussion. It's not an attempt to cut you down, Pinky. I just don't want newbies who are reading this removing their air guides based on what I believe are pretty weak claims. Just doesn't make sense.