S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

Can someone explain the advantage of heel-toe'ing ?

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Old Aug 1, 2004 | 01:01 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by SIIK2NR,Aug 1 2004, 03:08 PM
Definately start off slow motion . . .

Drive safe........
This part is crucial and I couldn't agree more. While learning you need to be moving slow enough that you are well under the tire adhesion threshold. Reason being, if you are messing around with the pedals and happen to slip off the brake, and you are approaching the limits of your tires, you will run wide on your turn with too much speed, possibly into oncoming traffic or a curb. If on the other side, you botch the blip and your rpms are not matched your rear tires will overload, sending you into a spin. For reasons like this, a class is the best place to learn although the S begs you to try everywhere. After you really get the hang of it, then you can start driving near the limit of the car without throwing it over the edge. You don't have to be moving fast to practice this.

drive careful
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Old Aug 1, 2004 | 04:14 PM
  #22  
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In reading some of the new posts, I just remembered what I used to do when learning to heel-toe.

First, learn to double-clutch. I started with a parked, turned off car, and just practiced running backwards through the gears: 5-4, 4-3, 3-2, 2-1 (obviously, this was before my S). Each shift involved:

clutch in
shift to neutral
clutch out
blip throttle
clutch in
shift to new gear
clutch out

Just do it over and over and over again until it's natural. I was in school at the time, and I'd sit in class and tune out the teacher and practice it while sitting at my desk. Probably didn't help my grades any!

Once you've got that down, the progression to heel-toe'ing is actually pretty easy. It's the clutching-shifting-blipping thing that's tough.

Hope this helps.
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Old Aug 1, 2004 | 04:32 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Road Rage,Jan 23 2004, 03:13 PM
I have found on most new cars with a "driving" pedigree, the pedals are setup for a slightly different heel and toe, without the heel!
...bingo !!!

.. half the trick is finding the right shoes .. thin soled and quite wide as you are covering two pedals ......... the ball of you foot being over the brake .. the important one !!!


.... the only thing is making sure you know that you are sure the ball of your foot is over the brake.... you don;t want it to slip on to the accelerator ...... if you not sure your better off hesitating and putting your foot centrally over the brake.... you occasionally have to conceed the perfect drive rather than acceleating into the guy in front of you trying to turn right !!!
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Old Aug 1, 2004 | 04:57 PM
  #24  
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just watch some initial D and you'll get it down lol
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Old Aug 2, 2004 | 11:39 AM
  #25  
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once you've mastered heel and toe downshifting, try going down a few gears at a time....

for example, I have been downshifting one gear at a time, from 4th to 3rd, clutch out, then again from 3rd to 2nd for the turn....

I'm now practising going thru 2 or 3 gears in one step

Brake
Clutch in
Downshift and Blip
Downshift and Blip even higher
Clutch out...

This allows you to brake constantly as you downshift thru the gears....
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Old Aug 2, 2004 | 01:20 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 03_AP1,Aug 2 2004, 02:39 PM
I'm now practising going thru 2 or 3 gears in one step

Brake
Clutch in
Downshift and Blip
Downshift and Blip even higher
Clutch out...

This allows you to brake constantly as you downshift thru the gears....
Is that really necessary?

I would just change your steps to be

Brake
Clutch in
Downshift (multiple gears) and Blip even higher
Clutch out...

So that there's just one big blip. Not that I'm an expert, but why bother with the intermediate gear, especially if your not going to let out the clutch in between?

Now, I'm not sure, but I could see someone making the argument that going through the entire process of each gear in sequence is preferrable to either either of the two above techniques-- but I can't see the advantage of blipping twice.

I'm skeptical but remain open to other ideas. Once again, I don't claim to be an expert.
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Old Aug 2, 2004 | 01:41 PM
  #27  
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i actually don't think that there is a right or wrong way to describe a driving technique such as heel and toe. each individual driver learns driving techniques at different rates and figures out little tricks that accommodate his or her daily driving habits and that transform his or her driving style in to something as individual as the person him self. this variation makes even something as simple and basic as heel and toe'ing different from person to person. it can also be said that driving stye is best learned by experimenting with different ideas and not by listening to others, if that were not the case then racing would be boring because every driver would be doing the same thing. so in this case do not ask what the advantages are go out and figure it out for yourself. find a big loading dock, set up some cones, and try it because in the end what other people say might not work the best for you.

drive hard
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Old Aug 2, 2004 | 02:21 PM
  #28  
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well, ideally, it would be one big blip....

however, i'm still learning the engine noises between each gear....how much I have to blip to match the revs.

Right now I blip twice so I can guage the difference in gears. I guess sooner or later I'll learn what a two-downshift blip is supposed to sound like.
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Old Aug 3, 2004 | 04:49 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Jason B,Jan 23 2004, 02:26 PM
I'd be curious to see how many people actually do this in the car. Someone should make this post into a POLL. I bet far less do it than we think. It takes a LONG TIME to master.
It does take quite a bit of practice to master. The high performance driving / racing schools will all put one through this drill "big time". I have attended the Skip Barber School twice over the years (1995 and then again in 2001 as a refresher (and to get to drive a Viper RT )

As mentioned previously: Less wear and tear on the synchros and if done properly will help prevent sudden weight tranfer and worse yet the possibility of locking up the rear wheels (if you really screw up matching your engine and wheel speed).
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