CAR and DRIVER Complete Article Reprint: "Synthetic Motor Oil Gets All New Semantics"
05-07-2002, 03:38 AM
#11
Stwok you sound knowledgeable on the subject, what do you think of my views?
I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently. The benefits of synthetic oil are over the long haul, not short term. I change my oil every 3,000 miles on all my cars.
Castor products minimize this wear better than mineral oils or synthetics.
However, if we were talking about high temps over a long period of time, then synthetics do a much better job of having their molecules go back together -- ie, infrequent oil changes. Another advantage of synthetics is better performance in low viscosities such as 0W--30 but thin oils don't apply to our high performance engine.
Oil flow is more important than oil type. The general rule of thumb is ten pounds of pressure for each thousand rpm. The key is to be right on. Too little or too much is bad.
I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently. The benefits of synthetic oil are over the long haul, not short term. I change my oil every 3,000 miles on all my cars.
Castor products minimize this wear better than mineral oils or synthetics.
However, if we were talking about high temps over a long period of time, then synthetics do a much better job of having their molecules go back together -- ie, infrequent oil changes. Another advantage of synthetics is better performance in low viscosities such as 0W--30 but thin oils don't apply to our high performance engine.
Oil flow is more important than oil type. The general rule of thumb is ten pounds of pressure for each thousand rpm. The key is to be right on. Too little or too much is bad.
05-07-2002, 04:23 AM
#12
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
[B]I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently.
[B]I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently.
05-07-2002, 07:13 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
[B]
I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently.
[B]
I don't believe there is any need to spend the extra money for synthetics for any car, street or race, where the oil is changed frequently.
05-09-2002, 09:49 PM
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dsp: If I sound upset, it is because of Bedard's article and Mobils lawyers, not your questions. But I'm not sure why you ask me a question, but say "no fair answering the way I think your going to answer". That was one of my points. There is a broader definition of "Synthetic". "Synthetic" does not just mean "man-made", but means "does not exist naturally". And I think that the meat of my argument was contained in the "Lubrication World" article (which you can't link to anymore). I think that my argument is consistant with the broader definition of "synthetic". Remember, I did not write "1. "Syntec is made with petroleum base stock". Syntec is not made with petroleum base stock..." I quoted a Catrol response, and I'm assuming it should read "... natural petroleum base stock..." to be more correct (again, implying Castrol's technical argument, of which technical details were from the missing Lub World article). So stating that it is based (that is, started as) crude, but is not a (natural) petroleum base stock can be correct.
11-29-2002, 03:49 AM
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Corporate Espionage you have to love companies that have CEOs taking all the money and make consumers pay high premiums... The philosophy is you make a product more expensive the consumer would believe its better....Consumer reports did a test on motor oil and no motor oil did anything amazing to be the best they all meet the standards and regular maintanence is all you need change your oil every 3000 miles and your fine.......Neglect is the major cause of engine failures..if not factory defects
11-29-2002, 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by geminiS2
.............. Consumer reports did a test on motor oil and no motor oil did anything amazing to be the best they all meet the standards and regular maintanence is all you need change your oil every 3000 miles and your fine.......Neglect is the major cause of engine failures..if not factory defects
.............. Consumer reports did a test on motor oil and no motor oil did anything amazing to be the best they all meet the standards and regular maintanence is all you need change your oil every 3000 miles and your fine.......Neglect is the major cause of engine failures..if not factory defects
When I bought my car 2 years ago. A friend at work who is a chemical engineer, suggested changing the oil every 2,000 miles and the filter every 4,000 miles to be safe. He felt our high-revving engines would shred most additive packages in petroleum based motor oils in a short time. So if you drive hard, change often.
11-29-2002, 09:37 AM
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Just because an engine will still be running in a taxi cab after 100,000 miles whether or not they use conventional oil or synthetic does not mean that there is no difference. I don't think consumer reports did before and after dyno checks to see how much power was lost after 100,000 miles or tore them down to look for any differences in bearing wear.
One of THE major benefits of synthetic (and most people forget to mention it) is that it FLOWS WHEN IT IS VERY COLD. Any fool with a thermometer, and oil guage and a stopwatch can prove it's advantages. On a real cold morning start your car and hit the stopwatch. See how long it takes to build up to full oil pressure. Test this with both synthetic and conventional oil at the same temps. The most significant engine wear occurs during cold starts prior to getting full oil pressure.
When Mobil-1 was first being developed it was used by the Williams Formula-1 team. It was considered a top secret speed trick by them and good for a significant amount of HP. In a world where millions are spent for marginal gains this was significant. Now I don't think there is a race team in the big leagues that don't use synthetics.
One other thing to keep in mind before some of you dismiss synthetics as not being worth the money. One day your cooling system may fail. You could blow a hose or throw a water pump belt and your engine will experience temps that it and conventional oils are not designed to handle prior to you being able to shut it down. This has happened to me (not in the S2000 thank God). When it does happen a good synthetic may very well save your engine. It did mine and I swear by them since.
One of THE major benefits of synthetic (and most people forget to mention it) is that it FLOWS WHEN IT IS VERY COLD. Any fool with a thermometer, and oil guage and a stopwatch can prove it's advantages. On a real cold morning start your car and hit the stopwatch. See how long it takes to build up to full oil pressure. Test this with both synthetic and conventional oil at the same temps. The most significant engine wear occurs during cold starts prior to getting full oil pressure.
When Mobil-1 was first being developed it was used by the Williams Formula-1 team. It was considered a top secret speed trick by them and good for a significant amount of HP. In a world where millions are spent for marginal gains this was significant. Now I don't think there is a race team in the big leagues that don't use synthetics.
One other thing to keep in mind before some of you dismiss synthetics as not being worth the money. One day your cooling system may fail. You could blow a hose or throw a water pump belt and your engine will experience temps that it and conventional oils are not designed to handle prior to you being able to shut it down. This has happened to me (not in the S2000 thank God). When it does happen a good synthetic may very well save your engine. It did mine and I swear by them since.
11-29-2002, 10:00 AM
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Stwok so your friend is a Chemical engineer for who Mobil Castrol or Honda?????? I think each company has a team of engineers to
figure whats best for what they design....Like our 9000rpm engines think motorcycles also 14000rpm as well!! Well if Honda wanted Mobil 1 wouldnt they do that as a Factory Fill???? Porsche Mercedes and others put that in their cars from the factory why dosnt Honda?? Also as you change your motor oil you should change your filter as well at the same time not 4000 miles thats neglect to change a filter you want to keep optimum oil clean change filter as well!! It comes to this keep up with your oil changes and your filter changes every 2500 or 3000 miles and your fine unless you are spoon racing and beat the hell of your car an keep it at 9000 rpm for 3 to 4 hours straight then that means engine overhauls before everyrace or few races but for everyday use in the normal world not as extreme .. As you know in this board people use dino and synthetic oil and some say theres cars perfomance seems hindered with synthetic and some arent and some dont feel any differences with either or all it is common sense and also breakin like what mechanics say 10000 miles later put synthetic and then thats it should it be Mobil 1, Syntec, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, Blends ect..... Who knows does anyone have any proof which one is better because if all of them make claims of being the best why arent auto manufacturers putting them in their cars???????? Is it all Hype or is it Corparate espionage as which oil company pays the auto manufacturer under the table to put their products in Hmmmmmm just like the Drug Companies Paying Doctors a bonus to distribute their meds over other meds from other companys!!!!
figure whats best for what they design....Like our 9000rpm engines think motorcycles also 14000rpm as well!! Well if Honda wanted Mobil 1 wouldnt they do that as a Factory Fill???? Porsche Mercedes and others put that in their cars from the factory why dosnt Honda?? Also as you change your motor oil you should change your filter as well at the same time not 4000 miles thats neglect to change a filter you want to keep optimum oil clean change filter as well!! It comes to this keep up with your oil changes and your filter changes every 2500 or 3000 miles and your fine unless you are spoon racing and beat the hell of your car an keep it at 9000 rpm for 3 to 4 hours straight then that means engine overhauls before everyrace or few races but for everyday use in the normal world not as extreme .. As you know in this board people use dino and synthetic oil and some say theres cars perfomance seems hindered with synthetic and some arent and some dont feel any differences with either or all it is common sense and also breakin like what mechanics say 10000 miles later put synthetic and then thats it should it be Mobil 1, Syntec, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, Blends ect..... Who knows does anyone have any proof which one is better because if all of them make claims of being the best why arent auto manufacturers putting them in their cars???????? Is it all Hype or is it Corparate espionage as which oil company pays the auto manufacturer under the table to put their products in Hmmmmmm just like the Drug Companies Paying Doctors a bonus to distribute their meds over other meds from other companys!!!!